Too Late to close the barn door

Pamela Meleqi, part owner, Altin’s Cafe & Grill, Fifth Avenue South:

"Across the street, almost every store on the first floor is for lease. Everything should be filled in."

"There are also way too many banks and real estate offices on the street. What tourist wants to come to that? We need more boutiques up this way."

If I was Pamela Meleqi I wouldnt complain about Realtors they have supported Altins for the past couple of years. The food at Altins is nothing to write home about, it's not the same quality that you get when you go to some of the other restaurants on Fifth even though the prices are the same.

BTW, the last time I was there she had her husbands Real Estate business cards next to the register to hand out.

Go ahead...pay for more expen$ive con$ultant$ on taxpayer'$ dime'$.

Meanwhile, if people could safely cross the street to Tin City from Fifth easily, there would probably be more visitors to shops in Tin City, which equals more $$$ for stores there.

Hire an expen$ive con$ultant 2 tell U the $ame thing.

Con$ultant$ = money $ucker$ of local city dollar$.

In the late 80's, this intersection of U.S. 41, near Tin City and Fifth, was considered to be a high vehicular traffic area....another consultant coined this little ditty at taxpayer's expense way back when.

My question is, will the City realize pedestrians want to feel safe while walking and strolling in this downtown area?

Let's hire ANOTHER consultant to figure everything out, shall we?

Wake up and think for yourselves.

Why hire a consultant to think for U?

streetrodder, the food at Altins and their cute hand-painted umbrella's are FABULOUS.

Leave them alone, and stop thinking realtors rule the world of Naples.

The economy is really tough right now, and for you to bash a restaurant and support real estate and equity that many Naples residents once had in their homes is kinda strange to me.

If you're looking for something you could characterize as a main street, Fifth Avenue is sad and pathetic. And Third Street is not far behind. The residents have lost control not only of both of their main streets but have watched the City Council sell the community to the highest bidders. Many of those bidders appear to be the purveyers of night life opportunities, things that have proven quite sordid of late. Bringing in consultants from afar is what got us in this mess in the first place. We elected our City Council to lead us, not to hide behind people who know nothing of the great town we used to have.

There is a downtown in Naples? LOL Wow, that is a pretty good joke calling it that. How about putting some eventful things downtown like real bars/clubs, not the restaurant slash club crap. I would also love to have them open til later than 2 and also throw in a couple strip clubs.

snapleska and unshinelover, what's on the menu there?

Can U tell me? Have you eaten there lately?

What was your favorite dish? Least fave?

The cost? The prices are pretty laid back compared to some of the fancier places on Fifth.

The service is friendly, and there are many locals who eat there.

But that's right, who wants to eat breakfast there, when strippers serve breakfast in bed?

Your remarks bother me.

Everything is much better at Waterside! What 5th
really needs are better retailers. Most of the stores sell junk but price it like Gucci....

this is ridiculous. what we need is new county commisioners who look into the future. we've lost so much revenue in this stupid county because they don't approve for companies to open up markets all around the county. one example is wal-mart who wanted to open a distribution center which would have brought "$" to this county between jobs and taxes but no it was shut down. so wal-mart moved to ocala. this county continues to disgust me with the people with money running it and doing what they want with not what the citizens want. this is one of the many others that have been shot down by this stupid county. i understand they want to keep it a retirement place. but this county doesn't run on snowbirds all year round. that's why they're called snowbirds. what about the rest of the year? broke......
even throwing away tax payers money to make the overpass @ airport and ggpkwy. nothing but political hoe's. all you need is the right price for the right hoe. and this county has many to choose from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bars, strip joints, night clubs all til the wee hours - lets let Naples live and see the real world.

More consideration should be given to the residents around the zone who bear the consequence of what that is,” said Reynolds, who moved to Naples in the 1950s.

What kind of consideration should be given to these residents? Shut down Fifth at the oldster's bedtime (8 pm)?

These people need to face it: 5th Avenue has changed. Some may say for the better; others may say for the worse. But it has changed, and it ain't going back to the way it was in the 80's or before.

The people who live near 5th need to put their places up for sale and move to a sterile gated comunity.

I am a part time resident of Naples. Fifth ave and Third Street south restaurants are great and i always go several times when i am in town. The shopping should be better to attract more pedestrians. I just got back from Aix en Provence in the south of France and it reminded me of what Naples could be. There were more shops than i ever could have imagined. Some international brands, some local. All the stores were small, and because the streets were built and designed a hundred years ago(or more) everything was close together. In the middle of the week, a zillion people were out and about shopping and in cafes.

For decades, much larger cities around the country have faced the consequences of a dying core. City Hall doesn't have to hire consultants to understand the results of THEIR studies, most of which conclude that the main contributor to a vital metro core is a vibrant night life and retail. If the residents who bought within ear-shot of the core do not like the resulting revitalization, there are many many homes for sale out in the quiet, sleepy Estates.

Our city council, and especially Barnett, have worn out their usefulness and welcome. Pay more money to some consultant to tell you what the residents of Naples can offer for free.

Idiotic ideas like buy Antariamn's property by Barnett just to get his poker buddies some cash.

We all know we need more parking, so build another parking garage and I don't mean Jackie A do it for us. He has ripped us all off enough.

Do you think the existing businesses are just going to stop doing what they are doing because some out of town fool says we need a different mix? The rent is too high for little grocery stores to survive. The street traffic will not change problem comes from people wanting to be downtown to hopefully spend money.

How about asking for a group of local business people, that have homes inside the city, to offer a free report? Maybe they won't be part of the little clubs that Barnett and the rest of the council belong to which would be good. And Bill Moss is not a Naples person and who the heck wants his Marco ideas here in our city. Most people hate Marco's theme.

WOW! I guess everything in life is relative. I have lived here for 15 months, I am 39 years old. My wife and I love 5th. We spend a lot of time there and with all the family and friends who come and see us, we entertain them on 5th. I guess I haven't been here long enough to see the same things others are seeing, or I don't have the "inside" track on some past issues. Nevertheless, My wife and I enjoy 5th.

Envision a city council who markets/sells its' city, rather than builds parking garages, private golf course entrances and insures themselves for eternity, and re-creates a reason for people to want to visit and subsequently chose to live here in Naples. All the answers of the past were that Naples was considered the place to be seen and after the hurricanes, it became the most over valued homes in the Nation. We let "kid' media reporters, most who never visited Naples, put us down for years. Naples must reposition itself in the eyes of those successful people up North, including Canada and Europe, who need a place to spend their money and do not want to be embarrassed when telling their peers where they went for their vacation.

So let 5th Ave. be Naples financial district if that's where it's headed with all the rich people you all complain about who live in Olde Naples. And keep your noisy strip and boozing joints some place else. Naples is big enough now for your all night entertainment to be someplace besides Olde Naples. And all of you who complain about us old coots, where would you be without us? What work do you do that doesn't ultimately depend on us in the city that developed by and for mostly for those of us who chose to retire here.

wow....so the city employees are getting "exorbinent" raises, but we have enough money for consultants and parking garages that really only service one select group, 5th Av merchants......amazing.

I agree HARTLAND if I remember correctly I believe that is how the city came about. It was designed and built as a vaction place. I think that is the true heart and soul of Naples.

Back in years past the fishing was great. Thats changed over the years. Now it is ruled and regulated to death.

There has always been a well to do section of town and there was a working class section.

And because Naples has never attracted any kind of industry where people could work instead of just construction and anything related to the feild. Naples needs the money from up north.

I am not saying this because I am one of the well to do. I am a working class stiff like the rest of the ones complaining.

I think it would be very interesting to see what would happen if all the well to do stoped coming down to Naples for Five Years. And stoped spending any money down here. And took there money with them.

But I do agree I think with the way the economy is ,it doesnt make good sence to spend the money this way.

The demise of the downtown areas occurs when malls and other locations open and offer more convenience. Better parking more choices, lower prices for customers and vendors.

Years ago we used to go downtown and you could bowl in the middle of 5th Ave and you wouldn't have to stop for traffic. Then the ADDED new businesses to the EXISTING businesses to make it appealing. Now all the old Existing businesses have fled and replaced with run of the mill businesses that you can find at the mall.

So why would you fight for a parking space, sweat in the heat, and pay more money when you can go to a mall and spend less, get more with less hassle.

I would venture that any study would tell you the same thing, so what would they do, subsidize rents for small mom and pop businesses, give free rent to a small market. Of course not. If the city believes that a study will be able to change economics they are fools.

The City Councilors are elected officials representing the people who elected them. You and I are the people who elected them. They do as we wish if we participate in the process.

If we do not participate, then unregulated market forces will dictate the evolution of the downtown area. We no longer have a Wynn's grocery store downtown because the Wynns could make more renting out their spot there.

The pharmacy moved out after being there for a generation because the market value for rents priced them out.

These two stores were part of what made 5th Ave. S. a draw for the local residents.

We can decide whether to let market forces dictate the future of 5th Ave. or whether we want to offer some kind of incentive to keep specific types of stores in the local mix.

If we can draw local residents to the downtown and increase the pedestrian accessibility through, for example, creating shade over the sidewalks, and redesigning 'four-corners' where 41 heads north(south) at 5th Ave. so that it is safe to cross there (have you ever seen pedestrians crossing there?).

Fifth Ave. S. is embedded within a residential community. This means its development needs to be with an eye to integrating the needs of the locals.

On the other hand, the locals are not all year-round residents so the downtown, to survive the summer, needs to be able to rely on tourists as well.

Do we value local small business owners? Are we willing to support them with our patronage? Are we willing to make arrangements to entice more small businesses to draw locals?

The City Council is tasked with doing our will. If we don't come up with a cohesive solution ourselves, then we have to hire outside 'experts' who may not really know us very well.

City staff just carries out the wishes of the Council. We have to take responsibility if we expect the results we want.

Money does not need to be spent to tell us the obvious, The downtown needs a better mix.I grew up shopping in my town's downtown. We had 3 ladies shops, a mens shop, childrens shop, shoe shop, hardware, italian market, bakery, drugstore, card store, 5 and dime, furniture store and a few others. They were all mom and pops and took care of their clients. You could go into the dress shop and say you needed a gift for so snd so and they knew what she had bought and what would be good...and this was before computers so it was all recorded by hand! Many of our shops offer these services and we should support our downtown. Not all of the stores are that expensive, take the time to see what is there, don't judge them all because the one you went in sold $500 dresses.The only reason we do not have a good mix is simple the rents are too high for people to make it and alot of these building owners could care less if they lease these vacant spots.

Consultants are leeches. Can't our leaders figure anything out or make decisions without them?

My husband and I own 2 fractional condos just off Fifth Avenue behind Chico's. We have owned them for 4 years. The reason we chose that spot was because of the convenience of walking to Fifth Ave. Our kids, (19 and 22) enjoy coming to Naples but not much for them to do...within walking distance. If there were more establishments on Fifth for the younger crowd... dance spots... maybe we would see more of the sophisticated younger crowds. That would also mean more trendier boutiques for the younger crowd would be needed..they walk to tin City to shop!!
We love Naples and have chosen there to retire as Snow Birds in a few years....I suggest instead of spending the money on bringing in a consultant to gather a committee of permanent Naples folks, plus us snow birds and occassional visitors....we tell our friends about Naples and they in turn have been visiting and spending their money and purchasing places in town! We are your best advertisers!! Get the community involved! All should have a say.....and why not appeal to all!!! By the way we are selling our fractionals and purchasing a condo for full time. If anyone is interested in a 1B/1B or a 2B/2B just off Fifth for a very inexpensive price for 13 weeks ($55,000 and $65,000) each...email me!! mlbalme@aol.com!

We love Naples and don't see that much change has to happen!!!! The way it is now is why we came here to begin with!!

a nice city from the eighties turns into toilet town.

What do all of you full time Naples folks think???? Let your Councilmen know what you want..instead of just complaining, give 'em something to think about!!!!! Like ideas!!!!! Come on SPEAK UP!! If you just keep complaining nothing will happen!

I DO NOT agree with STRIP Joints!! Go some where else to live...Let's keep Naples an upscale sophisticated area...maybe some of you could learn from that!!

My wife and I used to enjoy going to 5th because we could eat at a pretty decent restaurant at reasonable prices and then walk around afterwards to some neat shops.

Those days are gone. Why don't we go there anymore? Because now you're looking at cocktails at $10+, a steak starting at $30 and indifferent service. If I felt like I was gettin extraoridary service for these prices, I might feel differently but sad to say, just not true. Being nice is just not enough. I'm talking about being very knowledgeable about product and professional service standards.

Also, so many of the peculiar shops that were interesting are now closed.

Lastly, I put outrageous rents as a major (but not entire) reason for prices . Property owners have to understand that if they kill the golden goose by overcharging rents, their clients need to recoup costs by charging more or moving to another part of town. Outrageous pricing encourages us to visit Coconut Point, Miller's Ale House, and other small local establishments that go out of their way to welcome our $$$.

I haven't shopped at a store on 5th Ave since I bought my last pair of Hang Ten shorts from The Eagle's Nest.

There is no "downtown" Naples in the conventional sense.

City Hall is adjacent to what was formerly the town's commercial center. The stores that defined that center, as mentioned above, sold groceries, hardware, pharmacy services, sporting goods and gift/tourist items (appropriate given the town's existence as a resort destination).

Those stores are gone. The redeveloped Fifth Avenue South let loose market forces that made the cost of selling eggs or screws or treble hooks far too high to be profitable. The financial/legal services held on, but the commerce in necessities was replaced by resort/nightlife businesses of the most speculative nature.

Third Street was never "downtown." It was a place for the wealthy to have their hair done or buy a dress for the next fundraiser. So many of the shops were run by doctor's wives or operated as satellites of home stores in Bloomfield Hills or other northern locations that it stopped being a "local" area once the quonset hut theatre and the Beach Store disappeared.

Anyone remember when the Mole Hole building was a service station?

All the consultants -- including Duany -- are like Drs. Frankenstein, trying to tap into some cosmic lightning bolt to breathe life into an artificial assemblage of bits and parts. There's a boutique from here, a sushi bar from there, a jeweler from somewhere else. Very little of what they offer is necessary to local residents. Even less of it is affordable to those who work for less than stratospheric salaries. It will never be a functioning "downtown," only a curiosity for attracting disposable income.

Complicating things is the march of time. The old-timers who cast Naples in the shadow of their own expectations and did quite well with the Paddle and Lilly Pulitzer are on their last legs. The new residents want their Armani and, from the comments above, their night life.

The battle is joined. But the generals who lead the town to victory had better first come up with an unvarnished and frank assessment of the dynamics at work, and the expectations of new residents who wouldn't know Red Holland from a pink cosmo, and couldn't care less about Doris Reynolds' sensibilities.

Modern times, mon.

Very interesting, City Council wants to throw away more money on planners etc, instead of doing it themselves. Then they want to BAIL Jackie A out of a bad investment buy purchasing the old Grand Central property,for almost 20 million dollars, because Jackie cant sell anything on it. Then the city has the gall to send a latter out to all the city workers unions stating that the city cannot afford to pay its employees so the city wants to open contacts to take away money from the workers, and if the unions wont open their contracts the city will have to try laying off employees. But lets just keep spending cash on landscaping,and prperty investments,etc... what will the city do when the city employees are down to a skeleton crew and now have more stuff to take care of because the city cant see past its big nosae and fat wallets. GOOD JOB CITY OF NAPLES!!!

QUIT COMPLAINING AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! OFFER UP SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR THESE GUYS/GALS!!!

It's Urban Renewal time! Bulldoze the whole street and than farsighted individuals will notice the huge undeveloped area (Fifth Ave. S.+ the former Trail's End property + the Antman's property + all that bulldozed land accross Goodlette on the Gordon River...
"Divosta's City Walk"!
The Winn Dixie can go exactly on the spot it was before.

You want ideas on what to do for the city? Why not making a survey of the people that LIVE here...

Duh!

napleregular...the prices in some Fifth Ave. restaurants are high, but to compare the standards of Miller's Ale House to restaurants on Fifth Avenue is comparing the sinking Titanic to the Royal Carribean in customer service.

Miller's Ale House is a huge corp. in FL. When I asked for the "owner" I was refered to some obscure phone number in the center of FL and an email address. The manager said she didn't even know who the owner was, and there were six other restaurants she could attempt to find him in.

When you ask for the owner of McCabe's, I'll bet you'll find him.

When you ask for the owners of Altin's, you'll find them right then and there.

There are still some cute shops....mixed in with some quaint art studios. High priced, but cute.

Let's not forget the awesome ice cream shop, too.

But to cross from Tin City to Fifth or visa versa is insane.

It reminds me of the old "Frogger" game on Atari as people attempt to cross the street there.

But they'll hire some very expensive consultants on the taxpayer's dime to tell them the same thing.

Pedestrian foot traffic is an Atari Game, without a reset button when someone is hit by a car crossing the four corners area.

Revamping would be helpful to get more customers.

WHY NOT! GOOD IDEA! SEE YOU HAVE 'EM!!

Let me take a shot here. I'm a middle class resident of North Naples. It takes me 30+ minutes to drive to downtown Naples. Either most of the stores are out of my price range or I have no use for some of the specialty merchandise. Therefore, I have no reason to go there unless it's a special occasion. Conversely, I can drive 20 minutes to Coconut Point, most likely spend less money on a similar product, and have many low cost options for meals and similar products. Sure, it is a typical upscale mall. Same stores and restaurants. No quaint, small town "feel". But, I know if I go there that I'll find what I'm looking for in my price range.

I know what many will say. We don't want to turn 5th Ave./3rd St. into the same thing. You don't have to. But, you should include some tenants where people know exactly what they will get and what price they'll pay (national stores) as anchor stores. Anchor stores don't have to be large, but should attract shoppers that just may wander into that specialty art/clothing store because it's next door. It may also be wise to include some stores that can take advantage of the enormous spending power of today's youth. Teenagers have money and a lot of their parents do as well. How about some shops, i.e. Abercrombie & Fitch, Hollister, etc. that target young adults?

Some property owners overestimate the value of their property and are now paying the price for charging inexplicable rents, thereby driving prices through the roof for most people. The equation is easy: high rent=high overhead=high prices=lower sales=stores go out of business. The only way Mom & Pop stores can survive down there is for rents to go down and for some national anchor stores to move in to provide traffic up and down the street, providing a good mix of national and local merchants.

This scares me, what do you have a CRA for? Utilize city employees since the Mr. Moss is hinting for layoffs. Where's money for this process Mr. Mayor and City Council?
Let the city residents decide what they want, they'll be spending the money to support downtown, not the visionary.

BJ, I didn't mean to imply that Miller Ale House compares to what 5th has to offer although it may have come across that way. I was trying to say that many in Naples are flocking to MAH because of very reasonable prices and decent food. For the price, the svc and product are very in sync. Can't say the same for 5th.

Downtown Naples must have more than retail stores, or even restaurants to survive and prosper. Many cities, large and small, already realized long ago that there must be some kind of "focal" points to draw people to downtown shopping or entertainment districts. There are many options available such as a small to mid-sized convention center, an amphi-theater or a very nice art museum. The problem is, the mind set of the Naples Council and some residents goes against any kind of attraction or event that would bring people downtown. I live in North Naples and I seldom go downtown-I can't really think of a good reason to go. The image I have of downtown Naples is one big over priced nursing home for the well to do...complete with lights out by 8 P.M.. I agree with many of the posters who have recommended that the city save it's money and solicit input from the people who live here. They should have public hearings, open to anyone with an idea...and poll area residents, and look at the demographics of Naples and Collier County-get to know your market.

I am a resident of South Beach in Miami Beach, Florida and I can tell you first hand that you DON'T want clubs, strip joints and bars at Olde Naples. Yes, those things are fun and yes, I agree Naples should have more of those perhaps in another area that tourists who are interested in that type of activity can chose to go there or not. However, I do agree to many realtor offices aren't exactly fun to visit and neither are the high prices at the stores there. Rich people shouldn't be blamed for this, the truth is like anyone else they too like to save money. In a bad economy the landlords should have consideration with the store owners by lowering rent which in turn will allow them to lower their prices.

5th Avenue has turned into your family member who keeps coming to you for a loan, or bailout.

If 5th Avenue is to survive they will have to adjust to the market or they will not, simple.

I was at the council meeting the other day and listened while Ms. Heitman warned that if we were not careful The Gap and other CORPORATE businesses and Restaurants will replace what is there.

Well look around, Chops, Yabbas, Pazzo are all owned by the same CORPORATION which owns restaurants from here to Bonita, Estero, Ft Myers. Black whatever White House, Jami's Bice' chain restaurant, Starbucks, Kilwins, Trulux, Tommy Bahama, Chico's are all CORPORATE CHAINS.

The charm left 5th Avenue years ago.

While Naples fritters away 10s of thousands of dollars to tell us that the sun rises in the east, we have people living in cardboard boxes and children unable to read in this "rich" country of ours. I guess this waste of money is just one more example of what we get with Repignicans in charge of government be it local or state or Federal. Wake up, sheeple.

naplesregular...now I see your reasoning...I just didn't understand your Miller's comparison, as the ONLY thing they have going for them right now is the location next to the largest movie theater in Naples, as the smokers around the bar, the service, and the junk food are a total waste of time for me.

starthteinsanity...your reasoning to bring the smelly, perfumed clothes of Aberc. and F to stores in the downtown area isn't working for me either.

The teens of Naples are not going to save all the shops on Fifth.

Teens here have more fun shopping....or should I say shoplifting lately at Coastland Mall.....where there is a Ab and F store with lots of stinky, smelly, allergy inducing, size 3 manekins waiting for them to look at.

Coconut Mall is okay...quite cool....but the dogs in restaurants there disgusts me. Dogs are okay out in the mall area, but keep them out of the booths of restaurants. For every restaurant that allows a pooch in to dine, they loose at least two customers from this behavior.

Go native. Check out Boulder. CO. They did it. Nightlife and 5 star restaurants all on the same strip, families just a block away. And the money is still flowing in (real estate up 2 points in 07). Not a complicated formula, folks. Give breaks to locals (stores/restaurants), promote the beach life (culture), and work out the traffic (make it easy). Out.

#50 Posted by Jscou . We're talking about Naples City Gov't here. They are more concerned with what is on the menu for lunch, scratching each others backs and filling each others pockets.

Headline should read:

New vision? Naples to reassess needs of WEALTHY downtown

MlBalme over $4,000 a WEEK on a 1/1 condo is EXPENSIVE.....VERY EXPENSIVE...even if it is Fifth Ave.

beetlejuice:

Where have you been?? Checked out any weekly timeshare rates....They have been that and much more since the time they started.....Do some research it may be good for you, educational too!

P.S.

beetlejuice:

You should concentrate more on the positives than the negatives...do some research and give some solutions to the problems. If you took $4000.00 and multiplied it by 52 weeks that would be a full time condo for $208,000.00 not bad for a 1B/1B just off Fifth Avenue! find that price anywhere else close to Fifth!!!

MLBALME:

It's great that you like it here. We're all feeling swell about your good deal, too. There's nothing we appreciate more than a Johnny-come-lately with a spanking new bragging point, telling us all how good we'd have it if we'd just educate ourselves and look at the positives.

Of course, those of us who bought our lot in the Estates for eight grand, or a 3/2 condo in the Glades for $32K, or a house between the beach and the hospital for $47K cannot possibly share your perspective. Those of us who watched old friends run off because they couldn't pay the taxes on their fixed incomes are, in fact, really straining to celebrate your good fortune.

It's great that Naples suits you. Just recognize that the things that make you swoon are kryptonite to those of us who loved it before they made it appealing to you.

Have a wonderful time in your timeshare. I mean, in your "fractional."