when you say muddle you're correct..asking "God" is a coping fantasy...the answers are clear for anyone willing to face reality, but that is too hard for the human ego, and the coping fantasies always prevent us from seeing real answers and finding new solutions...look to societies where this does not happen and see the different possibilities...

for a start this thug should have been behind bars for life under a three strikes you're in for life law...parts of east Naples is a breeding ground of crime and violence so is Bonita Springs...our laws are absurdly weak regarding violent thugs and our judges and defense lawyers facilitate the release of these viruses back into society, and this is why the officer is dead...

personally, I'd support a two strike gets life law for violent offenders and those who use guns and weapons

prometheus...your comment is at first agnostic, then insulting and bordering on racist, and finnaly prophetic.

For those who believe in God, and mercy thru His Grace, do not see their belief to be a coping fantasy...we see the power of the Holy Spirit as sure as we see the wind move thru the tress and tall grass and it redeems us. We know that the things that are "of this world" are, in fact, imperfect. We will see perfection on the last day. This dead hero and his dead murderer are at this moment, by God's Grace, coming face to face with the Father.

The defense lawyers that help to provide a constitutional right for the accused, also employ private investigators to preform their due diligence and assist in returning these law breakers back onto the streets of our society. Be it a mistake in the formality, or a simple technicality, error or omission, these animals get plea bargined down to reduced sentences, or perhaps a supervised probation or a drug treatment program, always with the excuse of an overcrowded prison system. Tell that to a widow with three children to raise.

Private investigators (like Mr. Ortino, for example) have worked for most of their careers with the the defense lawyers who eventuate the release of future cop-killers like this cold-blooded murderer. The PI's are the defense lawyers "police force." How they sleep at night is a wonder to me...and to think that one of them wants to be the next Collier Sheriff. This is a dicotomy that makes me sick to my stomach. Let's just turn the jail over to the jail-birds.

For the violent offender, with the use of a firearm there should be no mercy. Don't even let the defense attorney or the private investigator get a chance at getting them off. Life - no parole, period!

MarcoRobert, you are a lovely human being. How dare you defile the memory of a slain officer with politcal crap. I, like Ortino worked the streets as a police officer for years. While you dont agree with defending ANYONE, you're too ignorant to know that if someone who had arrested him in the past had done their job correctly, no defense attorney could have afforded his release. Ortino works for predominantly civil attorneys, like you would know the difference. You equate the life of an officer with a simpleton Sheriff's election. You should be ashamed of yourself but I doubt you have enough guts to face that emotion.

Marcorobert..."For those who believe in God, and mercy thru His Grace, do not see their belief to be a coping fantasy"

believers never do see their coping fantasy for what it is; that's the nature of belief vs rational thought which requires work and mental effort.

you evidently have been indoctrinated into the patriarchal jewish/christian mindset...I think when the wind move through the grass and trees, its the wind moving through the grass and trees :)..

Where was your God when this officer was murdered? Where was "He" when little children were being raped and killed yesterday, and wives being beaten by their drunken husbands? One thing clear about your God is that he is a voyeur who has no problem viewing the human horrors of planet earth each day. I think you've hooked up with the Jehovah war god who still plans his own horrors eventually upon those who don't kneel to him; I kneel to no one, real or imaginary.

Belief is the easiest, laziest of mental gestures and it obviously works as an opium for fear and the unknown. Humans don't like to say "I don't know", so they're willing to but man made coping fantasies to assuage their mind. So we agree to disagree about religion and rationalism; you're a believer, I'm not. I'm sure you think you're hooked up with the right God and all the religions who have a different God story are wrong, and they think the same way of you.

Back to the editorial. This is a tragedy that should have never happened. The killer should have been in a cage.

My points are simple. `. Our society is way too tolerant of thugs and we pay the price every single day in this country, and this county; there should be zero tolerance. The officer, (editoral doesn't even give his name) payed the ulitmate price. Who will be next, today, tomorrow? 2. In anything human, follow the money. The judicial system of lawyers and judges is a money making machine for defense lawyers who use current "law" to put these killers, rapists, and thugs back on the street to prey upon the good citizens again. Those weak and manipulative laws are created by lawyers who get rich from their clients bloody deeds. Our society allows this.

Those who look for justice in the next life, again have a coping fantasy. I posit if they didn't have the "next life" fantasy they'd take this life more seriously. The meek will not inherit the earth, they won't even inherit a buck.

Marcorobert, we agree the system is rotten. I don't know how the lawyers who make their buck off the thugs sleep at night; it probably helps to have a dead conscience.

since prometheus chose to introduce his atheist beliefs (again) in post #1 and then goes on to ask MarcoRobert several questions about "his" God perhaps this will answer those questions....with all due respect to the editorial:

Ann Graham, Billy Graham's daughter, was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?” ( regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Here is her extremely profound and insightful response. She said:

"I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.
In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.

I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school ... the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself.
And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

...cont'd next post

..........cont'd from #5..............

Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. The school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued (there's a big difference between disciplining, touching, beating, smacking, humiliating, kicking, etc..). And we said OK.

Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said OK.

Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school. And we said OK.

Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs. Agreeing with them, we said it doesn't matter to me what anyone, including the President, does in private as long as I have a job and the economy is good.

Then someone said let's print magazines with pictures of nude women and call it wholesome, down-to-earth appreciation for the beauty of the female body. And we said OK.

And then someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children , then further again by making them available on the Internet. And we said OK, they're entitled to free speech.

Then the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence, and illicit sex. Let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes. And we said it's just entertainment, it has no adverse effect, nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Unfortunately, in this life, very little is clear. The more that you learn, the more that you realize how little you know or truly understand about this life or any other. I wish his family peace.

This crime took place in Ft. Meyers, but is that where the fault lies? Was the perpetrator not a resident of Collier County? Didn't he have a warrant out for his arrest in Collier County already, as reported on televison? I am not on the Ortino bandwagon, but if there is blame to be given maybe it it should be placed with the existing SO administration. As for PI's doing the work of the devil (defense attorney's) let's hope you never mistakingly get arrested.

At any rate, a fine young man that swore to serve and protect us has been lost and three kids will grow up without a daddy. Our prayers and support are with them.

Somebody let this animal back on the street.

#6 Posted by Canuck

Wow! Something to think about.

Cuba wouldn't take this killer back when ICE deported him. They had to free him after 60 days according to the law. The law should be changed so ICE could keep him permanently.

FYI.....Dr. Benjamin Spock's son did not commit suicide.

Canuck, am I to understand that before Madeline Murray O'Hare, god protected everyone from harm?

This officer that died, being a missionary, why didn't that get him special favor from god? I doubt he ever said "OK".

"We ask that question of God?"

If your God allowed this to happen then you should fire the loser!

Get your heads out of the sand!
God is Dog spelled backwards.

No God let this happen

re post #12...you are right ...Spock's son did not commit suicide......it was his grandson

re post #13,14.....why get so riled up about a God in which you do not believe????

post #13...yes before O'Hare it was a gentler society...... there were no Columbines.... no Virginia Techs....no terrorist attacks....and perhaps God decided to call that officer home for his reward for his good works on earth..as a religious man he would be the first to understand.......but then you would not understand because you have no faith

post #14...methinks you doth protest too much...why are you so afraid of God that you have to always blaspheme Him...you are to be pitied...and as always when you have nothing intelligent to say you resort to insults etc...sure sign of a weak mind

I'm not riled, Canuck, just curious.

Now, native Americans, THEY should be riled. I mean, to be slaughtered, by the millions, by such a gentle society, has got to put a huge hole in the ego, not to mention the gene pool.

Even as a un-religious man, I can understand the concept of god calling someone home for his rewards. I just have a hard time reconciling this man getting his reward, while his young wife and three tiny children are left to fend for themselves while they continue life with no husband and father.

Being that fatherless families are a large contributing factor in creating the type of lovely human being that shot this cop, it would seem like god is contributing to the problem, not helping or standing back like a "gentlemen".

What it your take on that?

well myrealname......perhaps you want to go back to caveman times when rival families killed each other...or the Moors sacking most of the Christian world or the retaliation of the crusades........you see that is man's inhumanity against man.....it does puzzle me when God is always blamed for these deeds by non believers when everyone has free will to do good or evil
today we have no civility in our schools where differences are not solved with fists but with knives and guns...just because they can....and with both parents usually working they get very little guidance from our educators and yes that culture did start when the bible readings and any reference to faith was removed

you cannot equate the killers family with the family of this officer....two completely different situations...and what do you know about the killers family...they may be very good people

I am sure the officer's family will be well looked after financially and although they will miss their husband/father terribly I see their strength in their faith from the statement they released that strength and faith will serve them well in the future

Canuck, in post 15 you said, "and perhaps God decided to call that officer home for his reward for his good works on earth..as a religious man he would be the first to understand......."

and in post 17 you said, "it does puzzle me when God is always blamed for these deeds by non believers when everyone has free will to do good or evil."

So now, I'm puzzled too, was it god calling this officer home or was it man's inhumanity against man?

I am not a theologian so I cannot explain why God calls a good man like this officer early and why the killer was the instrument
I do know that God has a plan for all of us and how and when that unfolds no one knows....by natural causes..by disease...by violence
I also know that we are not robots....we have the ability to choose..left from right...up from down...and yes good or evil
so all I can answer is yes to both your questions and that is my faith

#18 Posted by Gutta1

**QUOTE**
The officer should have been quicker on the draw.
**END**

Maybe the cop should have shot first and sorted things out later.

#21 Posted by oldnaples

**QUOTE**
Maybe the cop should have shot first and sorted things out later.
**END**

Possible response by GUTTA1:

Look at the racist cop killing a poor misunderstood (black or cuban) man without due cause.

Canuck...I have never posted anything on here..but I just wanted to say I appreciate what you wrote..People only want God around when they want something and when he's not there..than they wanna blame GOD..They only call on him when they need something and never during there rutine of life talk to him unless its something they need..and when he doesn't give them what they want..he gets all the blame..its all his fault..Its only by the grace of GOD that my father is still alive..I believe prayer kept him alive..but he doesn't just call on God when he needs something..God is a part of my fathers life and has been since as long as I can remember..so when my father eventually does die I will NEVER blame God because only GOD kept him here way longer than he should have..TO you people who don't beleive in GOd....1 day you will see...but by than my friend, it will be MUCH to late...My prayers go our to the officers family..and you know , one day, you will be together again....

#18 Posted by Gutta1 - you are a horrible person. Another loser who embraces the thug life of the animal arrango.

#8 - YOU ARE A FIRST CLASS A--- ---E! I cannot believe you blame this on CCSO. Hundreds of thousands people in this State have warrants do you really think it’s possible to round them all up? I am disgusted you would say such a thing during a time like this.

If a person with an outstanding warrant from outside of Collier or Lee Counties killed someone else in our neighborhood would you blame that law enforcement agency for the person’s death also?

Doubtful, I think your hatred for CCSO must surpass your ability for common sense and rational thinking. To blame the administration is to blame every Collier deputy for this Police Officer’s murder.

Maybe if the courts would have locked this guy up for life after his first or second felony this never would have happened. The cops did their job by repeatedly locking up the animal arrango multiple times.

Either you are to ignorant or unwilling to ask the question as to why the animal arrango was allowed to go free each and every time? Why don’t you ask the judges, SAO’S and all of his defenders why he was still walking the streets?

Your problem is that you have no shame and are agenda driven. BUT SHAME ON YOU ANYWAY! Don’t blame law enforcement for this great mans death.

Rest in peace brother!

#18 Posted by Gutta1
Gutta = Little boy.

What a piece of *#@* you are. If he had drawn first and killed this convict you would've been one of the first @#@# throwing out the race card.
White officer kills a minority, bring him to justice. He wronged a minority.

Do not try to justify his or your thug lifestyle. Arrango made a choice to end anothers life. Thankfully his life was ended as well shortly thereafter for the price of a bullet. Rather then see this lovely human being on death row for the next few decades exhausting court appeals, wasting time and taxpayer money.
He was dealt with accordingly, sad to see an officer killed in the line of duty.

Hopefully you don't do the same with your Beretta 92F, get a job and grow the *@#* up. Your a little boy who thinks he knows what life is all about, thumping your chest and stroking you own ego. You just don't get it. Their is no glory or respect in thug life, get over yourself.

Alright, I'm ready for your witty arrogant response .Let's hear how tough you are and how much harm you would inflict upon me IF we ever met in person.
I need a good laugh to start my day!

God gave us free will.
God does not step in while we are expressing our free will.Well at least not most of the time.
Gutta just disappear...go back under your rock.You sound like a typical 20 year old that thinks they know everything already. Actually you are more on the level of a young teenager.GROW UP.
I don't like cops generally but I respect them.
There are really GOOD cops and really BAD cops.
Just like there are really GOOD teachers,lawyers,doctors and there are really BAD ones.
Can't tell the difference so I respect them until they don't deserve my respect (that particular individual).
You have a massive chip on your shoulder about cops. This will inhibit you in life. Brush it off and embrace a different mentalty.
God Bless our slain officer and his family.This man was a GOOD man.The very best.

#26 Posted by Gutta1.

So basically your saying you will always be ignorant, so sorry to hear that. We were holding out hope you would get over yourself and learn from the world. It has a lot to offer and cultures to experience. Older doesn't necessarily mean wiser. Never said that. Old people can be ignorant as well.

I could care less what you look like , or how you carry yourself. How you chose for others to view you or not view you is your own business. Don't be surprised if you are labeled a thug though, because you walk like a thug, talk like a thug and carry yourself as a thug, many will simply view you as a thug carrying a 9mm. You become expendable as a thug. As Arrango did.

But thats what you ultimately want , isn't it?
It makes you feel important and wanted. Street cred is worth the risk so you can get laid and put out that hardcore G image?

Thugs like you are a dime a dozen in and out of prison. You want to portray the "badboy" to get laid pure and simple, correct?. You are just looking for a "hookup" ,
all your lifestyle leads to is jail and prison. Quite the promising future you have.

And could 38 be considered old? LOL

Thug = Expendable

Gutta - No matter how you slice it you are a failure. No better then the animal arrango.

Your a piece of work Gutter, you don't consider yourself much different than everyone else? BUT yet try to stand out from the crowd with gold teeth,baggy clothes, and dreads? If that doesn't scream "Look at me, look at me, look at me!!!!" I don't know what does!
Why not light yourself on fire, you might get LESS attention. By all means enlighten me. I haven't alienated you, you've alienated yourself by your attitude and demeanor.
"People like me want to divide?"
And hows that? By disagreeing with your lifestyle and how you act and carry on? So I should embrace your ignorance or just ignore it? LOL

Do you honestly blame the old men and women clutching their wallets and purses tighter to themselves when you walk into a room, a restaurant or the mall?
But isn't that what you want? Respect, to be feared?

I suppose the gold teeth are for dental reasons as well huh? LMAO
Nothing to do with portraying a certain image huh? Sure,sure,sure. LOL

How about this? Get a haircut, get rid of the gold grill, educate yourself, dress like a normal,average person like you say you want to be and then you might be able to get out on your own and stop living with Mommy.
Get that job you say you want...

Read my words again Gutter. I could care less what you look like or wear,or how nappy the dreads are honestly. But if it walks like a duck,talks like a duck, and acts like a duck it sure as f*** isn't a rooster. LOL

How did you come up? Did you know Daddy or did he bolt after he conceived the blogger we all know and love like a venereal disease. At 19 years old your still lost.

And yeah that is the only excuse I could come up with for the abortion you call a wardrobe, to get laid and try and impress those peers. You didn't have to mention it. Your reasons are your own. But those reasons will cause you havok in dealing with people for the rest of your natural life.

Obviously your doing something right Gutta, your unemployed and still living at home with Mommy and Daddy at 20 years old.
Your lifestyle is the epitome of what a young black males should be, keep up the good work, you know it all...

Both men CHOSE the Lifestyle they were living. It doesn't matter what nationality either of them were. One chose a life that either way was leading to death and pain and sorrow. The other chose a more positive life, but in the end he chose to be an officer, he was doing his job.

Jadip and Gutta: Is there really a need, to insult the way someone dresses, or the perceived lifestyle that someone is portraying. There are many clean cut people involved in the same life style that Arango was living (violent and negative), just as there a many people that dress "thuggish" and live a positive lively (for lack of a better word)providing for their family and friends.

It’s not a matter of color or nationality that makes someone decide whether they will live positively or negatively it’s a matter of their individual conscience.