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Letters to the Editor: May 9, 2008
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Letter of the Day: Dump ‘that dump’
Editor, Daily News:
Recently I took a Greyhound bus from Tampa to Naples.
Tampa has a very nice, modern station. There were stops in St. Petersburg (OK), Bradenton (OK), Sarasota (OK), Port Charlotte (gas station), Punta Gorda (gas station), Fort Myers (state-of-the-art facility) and then on to Naples.
We got off Interstate 75 at the new Golden Gate interchange, drove over the beautiful, new bridge onto nicely landscaped Airport-Pulling Road, and then ended up in that dump on Davis Boulevard which is the Naples Greyhound bus station.
None of the other stations were even close to looking like that.
Since Naples is reputed to be one of the loveliest areas in Florida, and a lot of money is spent to keep it that way, can’t someone do something about moving the bus station to a nicer facility in a nicer area?
Edwina Barsano, Naples
Credit really earned?
Editor, Daily News:
The Economic Development Council of Collier County commentary on April 30 raised some interesting issues.
When U.S. corporate executives were polled on their top 10 site-selection factors (where to locate businesses), EDC-sponsored programs — state and local incentives (No. 8) and tax exemptions (No. 10) — were at the bottom of the list.
Businesses always accept taxpayer generosity, but other factors (highways, labor costs, energy costs, skilled labor) really influence their decision-making.
The EDC took credit for “returning more than $5.6 million to the general fund.” Actually, this means they missed their estimates on what the incentives would cost annually and didn’t find enough businesses to qualify. It reflects a failure of the program, not a success, though taxpayers benefit when their money isn’t wasted.
The EDC takes credit for “creating and retaining more than 1,500 jobs,” with millions of dollars in economic impact, due to their incentive programs. For over 1,200 of these jobs, the EDC only processed paperwork for companies to qualify for the county’s Fast-Track Permitting Program. This number includes 300 new jobs for the Physicians Regional Medical Center on Collier Boulevard, 70 new jobs for the Ave Maria Law School and over 300 (created and retained) jobs for the Daily News’ move within Collier County.
Does anyone believe that fast-track permitting created and retained these jobs — or that EDC can justifiably claim credit — especially when county staff established the program and did all the work?
When you take credit for something, there really should be a reason.
Janet Vasey, Naples
Editor’s note: Janet Vasey is a member of the Collier County Productivity Committee.
No good deed ...
Editor, Daily News:
I stopped at a secondhand store recently to donate bags and bags of clothes, purses, belts and shoes that belonged to my mother, who recently passed away.
The lady I met at the door was very helpful. After lugging in all the bags and boxes, another lady asked me if the clothes were clean. I replied, “Yes, they are.”
She said, “Are they folded?” I replied, “No, they aren’t.”
She then told me that they needed to be folded.
I told her I didn’t realize that, as I was looking around for some type of sign that states this. She told me that the next time they need to be folded.
My reply was that there wouldn’t be a next time.
I was just dumbstruck that anyone would act like this when I was doing a good deed.
I will never, ever donate to them or shop in their store.
Just a heads-up for others.
Sandy Fleming, Naples
Help us tune in?
Editor, Daily News:
In the past, when I turned on my TV, it was on the same channel as when I turned it off. Now it automatically goes to Channel 8. Comcast owns Channel 8.
The power to reach over 25 million automatic viewers is pretty awesome. So, couldn’t Comcast pioneer more substantial programming than what is presently being shown? How about Channel 8 dealing with issues like the VeriChip; the Amero; real ID; the NAFTA superhighway, aka Nasco Supercorridor; DNA databases; the Council on Foreign Relations; Planet X, aka Nibiru; the Federal Reserve and the Rothschild international bankers; the IRS; the unpatriotic Patriot Act; Bohemian Grove; the Department of Homeland Security and its stripping of our freedoms and rights; zeitgeist; the Mayan calendar; SPP.org, aka North American Union, which threatens our national sovereignty; the Freemasons; and the non-hoax crop circles, to name a few.
Now that sounds like interesting programming! I would be a regular viewer and not even have to change the channel!
C-SPAN stays on top of current events. Why not make that the channel that is automatically tuned in? Knowledge is power.
Wake up, people, or just continue to watch current Channel 8 programming and wait for the next “breaking news” of a real or manufactured event.
Vicky Parsons, Naples
There will be a quiz
Editor, Daily News:
Letter-writer William J. Schuch recently attributed AIDS-related deaths in Africa to popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI.
What convoluted drivel.
Perhaps — and only perhaps — a course at Ave Maria University, namely Logic 101, could curb such irrational thinking.
He also seems to know Pope John XXIII is “waiting patiently — in heaven!” for canonization.
It just might be, since he was the architect of Vatican II, John XXIII is ineligible for sainthood.
Dennis J. Sosnowski, Naples
This conservative says ...
Editor, Daily News:
This is in reply to the invitation by Al Hannigan to explain contradictions among conservative viewpoints.
As an 84-year-old Barry Goldwater conservative, I understand perfectly Hannigan’s confusion. First of all, it’s no one’s business what, if any, religion I support.
As for the “gay marriage” thing, this conservative believes those of the same sex should have all the rights of heterosexual marriage. It just can’t be called “marriage.” Semantics, you know?
And now abortion! This conservative of unknown religion believes in both rights of choice and rights to life. Say what? OK, I think we can agree that life ends when the heart stops beating. Why then doesn’t life begin when the heart starts beating? An ultrasound of a fetus can give that information easily. So an abortion prior to a beating heart should be a woman’s choice.
My understanding is that it would give the mother-to-be about 20 days to make a decision. After that, life takes precedence over choice.
Any questions?
Bruce Durkee, Naples
No!
Editor, Daily News:
First, I would like to be introduced to the mythic “secretary” described by columnist Brent Batten as earning $70,000 a year. This figure is at least double the current earnings of any woman I know who works any kind of administrative support or retail management job (yes, they’re all women, oddly enough).
Please let us know where this woman lives and works — I’ll pass the word along. This could create a mass exodus from Southwest Florida.
Batten projects tax figures for both the “secretary” earning $70,000 and the “hedge-fund manager” earning $580 million (yes, million). The secretary pays, according to Batten, 20 percent of her income, or $14,000. The hedge-fund guy pays 15 percent, or $87 million.
Here, Batten poses the most ludicrous question imaginable: “Is that fair?”
Here’s the answer, Mr. Batten: No! It is not fair, because the hedge-fund manager should be paying the same rate: 20 percent, or $116 million!
Taxes do provide services, not just to the individual paying them, but to the community and country at large. Just think what good that extra $29 million could do. Maybe if everyone paid the same flat rate (percentage of earned income), it could be lowered for everyone, not just the super-rich. Maybe Social Security, Medicare, No Child Left Behind, federal school lunch programs, etc., would not be operating in the red.
Batten should have taken a nap the day after Tax Freedom Day, and left the attempt at logical thought and/or opinion writing to someone more logical.
Maureen Grogan, Naples
Knee slappers
Editor, Daily News:
Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, President George W. Bush’s big “little brother,” has apparently begun his new career as a funny man, if the April 24 Daily News article, “Jeb Bush skeptical about global warming,” is any indication.
While entertaining several hundred business folks in his “Old Home Texas Ballroom,” Bush came out with the following quips:
• “I don’t think our policies should be based on emotion; they should be based on sound science.”
He then belittles the “sound science” that has been done and doesn’t think we need to make any changes in our oil consumption or environmental policies to limit our impact on atmospheric greenhouse gas emissions.
• We should focus on “energy security ... by encouraging alternative fuels.”
Yet, the most efficient biofuel source is good old Cuban and Florida sugar cane, and I don’t recall the governor encouraging such processing when he had the chance.
Bruce J. Kennedy, Naples
Opposed to marriage?
Editor, Daily News:
After reading the guest commentary defending the institution of marriage by the Rev. Hayes Wicker, I suspect he suffers from the same affliction I experience frequently.
He better sharpen up his shovel. Often, when I’m trying to make amends and apologize for perhaps not saying what I meant to say, I end up digging myself deeper and deeper.
He cites “opponents to marriage.” I have never met anyone opposed to marriage (except maybe those in the midst of a terrible divorce), nor have I read any letters opposed to marriage.
Oppositions I do hear frequently, however, are from people like me who have tried to be outstanding citizens, volunteer and contribute to charities, attend church and maintained a same-sex household for over 34 years. (I know several who have done so for over 60 years.)
However, we must pay double taxation, spend thousands in attorney fees to protect property rights, and have to convince kind medical personnel to give us information and visiting rights to a loved one.
No, Rev. Wicker, I am not opposed to marriage, nor do I want to be married. Been there; done that and have three wonderful grown children, grandchildren and a great-grandchild.
It is a fine institution, when it works. So do love, compassion and equal opportunities.
Victor Brittain, Naples
Destroy what?
Editor, Daily News:
Re: “Destroying the sanctity of marriage.”
The holy rollers who claim that same-sex marriage will undermine the very foundation of our society are giving a minor blip in our social pattern a lot more weight than it is due.
It is my understanding that less than 10 percent of the population has same-sex orientation. Of those, probably half might seek marriage. Does this 5 percent represent any threat to the well-entrenched heterosexual pattern — or are the complainers really afraid of something else?
If there is a threat to the sanctity of marriage today, it is the 50 percent divorce rate and the wreckage it causes. Why don’t these enthusiasts turn their attention to solving the problems that lead to divorce. No one else has succeeded.
One minor benefit of same-sex marriage is that when they divorce, there are seldom any children caught up in the mess.
Same-sex marriage should make the anti-abortionist happy, since it rarely happens in these pairings.
L.S. Moore, Naples
Not adding up
Editor, Daily News:
Sen. Barack Obama proposed a way to help solve the Social Security problem.
He called for removing the lid on Social Security earnings. Presently, it tops at $90,000. He would have all earnings subject to the 7½ percent deduction and, of course, the employer’s 7½ percent match would also be contributed.
This is a nutty idea! Those who would be affected may not realize that at retirement Social Security earnings are subject to a percent calculation, awarding a larger percentage to lower earners. Higher wage earners who retire, assuming they would be receiving a nice Social Security check reflecting the large amount they had contributed, would find they were receiving very little more than those who were in the lower brackets.
This would amount to just an extra income tax. Plus, nastiest of all, the employer with high-tech, high-wage earners would find themselves paying the match on their total payroll. This would be nothing but a huge extra tax on the very employers who should be encouraged to create good jobs for America.
God help us if this man gets elected and successfully pushes something like this through Congress.
Victor Oakes, Naples
Pays to ask
Editor, Daily News:
If you receive the volume of phone calls that my family does — you know the ones, where you say “hello” two or three times before someone on the other end of the line finally speaks — then this is a heads-up for you.
Most always these are charity solicitation calls, and I am flabbergasted that most of them admit, after I question them, that only 20 percent of my donation will go to the actual charity and the remaining 80 percent goes towards (so-called) administrative fees and expenses.
Think about it. Only 20 cents of your donated dollar actually goes where you want it to go. Maybe everyone else knows this is the case, but I honestly didn’t.
The bottom line for my family is, unless at least 80 percent of my donated dollar goes to the actual charity, then I just refuse to give to them. If they won’t tell me the percentages, or tell me they don’t know, then that’s an automatic no from me as well.
Just do yourself a favor and ask the percentage question before sending your check. Some will argue that 20 percent is better than nothing, but I strongly disagree and I hope you will too.
Jim Anderson, Naples
Look at the bigger picture
Editor, Daily News:
Someone wrote to the Daily News that they were never so ashamed to be a reader of the paper as when they read about the Rev. Hayes Wicker’s statement (saying gay marriage is a greater social crisis than slavery).
I believe reading about officials abusing children, public figures embezzling, drug dealers murdering, crooked politicians cheating and leaders of nations sponsoring ethnic cleansing should bring on embarrassment and rage. Wicker’s statements hardly fit in the those categories.
I know Wicker and his family are caring, compassionate people who have a great love for all people. His comments at the meeting, as reported, were incomplete, which altered the meaning.
He has written an apology and clarification for those not in attendance who missed the overall message (published April 24). His words may have not been totally reported, but his message needs to be heard and understood.
Nations that have allowed the family to deteriorate have collapsed. He is trying to prevent that for our country, which was founded on biblical principles.
Today we have freedom of speech. What will be the outcome if those few who are trying to redo our heritage of family and faith, our values, and trying to muzzle those defending them with a “hate speech” liability, succeed? Will America be better off or worse?
There are several thousand attendees in season at First Baptist Church from different faiths and nationalities — a good testimony to Wicker’s overall outreach to people.
He preaches truth and is a humble man of God.
Tom Gains, Bonita Springs
The long and the short of it
Editor, Daily News:
You state, “The Daily News welcomes letters of up to 250 words.”
Either you cannot count or John Riccio uses very obese words, as his last letter was at least 275 words long.
In rebuttal to Riccio’s statements, I offer the following:
The election in 2006 produced Democrat majorities in the House and Senate. At that time, regular gasoline was $2.19 a gallon, unemployment was 4.5 percent and there were few home foreclosures.
Now, regular gasoline is $3.60 a gallon, unemployment is 5 percent and 1 percent of homes are in foreclosure. Since 2006, people have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion and consumer confidence has plummeted.
America voted for change in 2006, and we really got it! Remember, it’s Congress that makes laws, not the president. He has to work with what is handed to him. Who produces the deficit?
I will be kind and not call Riccio a fabricating, verbose, exaggerating drinker of spiked Gatorade. I’ll leave that up to the readers of the Daily News.
This letter is 180 or so words long.
Jim Hampton, Naples
Blame game
Editor, Daily News:
It’s obvious Democrats become upset over certain topics.
Two recent letter writers questioned my statistics regarding troop deaths. Whereas it is difficult to determine which set is more accurate, the real issue is that during the Clinton years, the media were not presenting daily “body counts,” nor the John Riccios of the world planting crosses on the beach. Maybe those were “good” deaths!
The difference between us is that I don’t think it was Bill Clinton’s fault that those troops died on his watch or that he caused hurricanes while he was president. He was not the cause of the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center. However, he was responsible for not responding to that attack and for allowing the military to be so markedly diminished during his two terms!
By the way, in his last letter, Riccio, attempting to disparage John McCain’s claim that the country is “better off,” provided us with a long list of deteriorations such as gas prices, unemployment, inflation, etc., blaming it all on President Bush, as usual. He deliberately fails to mention that all these changes for the worse occurred since the Democrats took over both houses of Congress! I wonder why?
The double-talk really comes out when the letter writers attempt to blame taxation of Social Security benefits on Republicans! Sure, Ronald Reagan was president, but it was the Democrat Congress that passed the law, fending off a veto by promising spending cuts they never delivered (as usual)!
Come on, guys, be honest and stop the spin!
Donavin Baumgartner Jr., Naples
Amen
Editor, Daily News:
Many e-mails come with pictures from the Iraq war. Invariably they have a prayer asking that God protect our soldiers, bring them home safely and grant them victory.
Unfortunately, the enemy prays to God for the same thing. If there is but one God, are we not asking him to choose sides? Do you believe God chooses sides? Are we not all his children? Could you choose which of your children will die today?
Perhaps we should change our prayer:
“Heavenly Father, I have no right to come before you and ask for anything. I am a sinner. But what I ask is not for me, Lord. It is for the children of the world, needlessly dying.
“I don’t ask for victory, Lord, nor do I ask you to give our children strength. I ask most humbly, Lord, that you give world leaders wisdom; the wisdom to see the futility of killing each other, especially in your name.
“I pray that you give world leaders strength, Lord, the strength to say enough — enough killing; we are not barbarians; there has been enough killing in your name. Give them strength to stand up and say ’I want peace’ and to withstand condemnation from those who want only victory — at any cost.
“I pray you give them insight, Lord, to see the future doesn’t lie with weapons, but with education, health care, disease prevention and care for the starving, huddled masses, regardless of color, religion or ethnicity.
“Grant this prayer, Lord. Save us from ourselves.”
James C. Athanas, Naples
Name two
Editor, Daily News:
Letter-writer Lou Cohn accused Barack Obama (among other Democrats) of being a “blatant liar” and “Bubba” Clinton of being the “liar of all liars” and added that John McCain faces “the longest odds a Republican presidential candidate has ever faced.” (Apparently he has forgotten Alf Landon, et al.)
I have the following requests for Cohn:
1. Please state the two most blatant lies told by Obama, which you feel are so serious as to disqualify him as a presidential candidate.
2. Which lies by “Bubba” Clinton caused the loss of as many thousands of lives and cost as many trillions of dollars as the “misrepresentations” by his successor?
3. Why do you suppose the odds against McCain are so long?
I admit that items two and three are more statements by me than questions for Cohn, and I can guess his answers, if any.
But I am curious about item No. 1, because I had not heard that particular smear until I read Cohn’s letter.
John F. Malley, Naples
Wake up and send the coffee
Editor, Daily News:
I, along with the staff and veterans at Homer Helter’s Military and Antique Mall, want to personally thank Keith Audet, store manager of the Starbucks coffee shop located on Pine Ridge Road, for the cases of Starbucks coffee he and his loyal customers donated to our Support Our Troops program.
Audet, his staff and customers have stepped up to the plate to bring a taste of home to all our brave men and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.
To date we have shipped over 12,500 pounds of items listed on A Soldier’s Wish List to our soldiers. This has all been possible through the continued support of great people, mainly from Collier and Lee counties, and their continued support is appreciated and needed.
If you have loved ones serving in Iraq or Afghanistan and would like them to receive a package, or would like to donate items listed on A Soldier’s Wish List, please contact us at the mall, 5510 Shirley St., Naples, 594-9900 or dhelter@aol.com.
Homer Helter, Naples
For starters
Editor, Daily News:
One of the best parts of my day is reading the letters to the editor in the Daily News.
I am so amused when I read “dismayed,” “appalled” and “disturbed” at the start of the letters.
Heavens to Betsy, folks.
Get a life!
Bill Henry, Naples
Let’s all butt in
Editor, Daily News:
I support the Collier County Sheriff’s Office Traffic Enforcement Bureau in fighting the “butt tossing” people. Anything we can do to stop this disgusting habit I will support.
The fire danger, health issues and wrecking the landscape of our beautiful city are just a few of the issues that must be faced.
Carol Jaffe, Naples
Comments
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James Athanas -
Yes, it is tragic that in time of war, both sides pray for their God's help. It seems so ridiculous. My opinion is that there is no God listening to any of them. They are wasting their breath. If there are gods that care about the human race, they would stop wars in the first place. Gods are supposed to be all powerful. Why don't they have the power to stop hatreds and racial and national animosity towards other people? I can't believe there is a God that cares about any of the people on Earth. Doesn't it seem crazy that any God listens to people who pray to him to win wars?
Religion has caused people to be unbalanced as far as their thinking process is concerned.
#1 Posted by rationalman on May 8, 2008 at 9:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dennis Sosnowski -
Indirectly the Popes are partially responsible for AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. They don't believe in contraceptives which can lessen the proliferation of sexual diseases. The Catholic church can take a lot of blame for the deaths of people who don't use condoms and other means of contraceptive protection.
There are other churches that can share the blame also. Uneducated people in Africa and other places need secular sex education and help to keep them from sexually transmitted diseases. It's not coming from the Vatican.
#2 Posted by rationalman on May 8, 2008 at 9:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
posts 1&2.....
GARGAGE...GARBAGE....GARBAGE
SAME OLD REPETITVE JUNK!!!!
#3 Posted by Canuck on May 8, 2008 at 9:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Jim Hampton I am afraid I can not be kind to you for trying to fabricate that its the fault of the newly elected democratic congress that this country has been heading down the toilet these past 7 plus years.Please name one law the democrats passed that caused any of these mentioned problems, such as the trillions of dollars of deficit,the thousands of deaths to our military,the increase in gas prices,etc etc.Lets not forget Bush never used his veto pen till the democrats became the majority.
While the republicans had the majority he OK everything they sent him.Thus the accumulated Quagmire we now find our selves in.
You sir are a spin artist.You should be working for this crooked Bush administration.
#4 Posted by jfriccio38 on May 8, 2008 at 9:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
jfriccio38 ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure if Bush and his cronies are crooked but they most certainly bend the truth like ornamental iron.
What I am sure of is "OBAMA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
#5 Posted by boulderbilly on May 8, 2008 at 10:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
posts #3
Same old repetitive rebuttal. Junk!!!!!
Rationalman ROCKS!!!!!
#6 Posted by cornandbeans on May 9, 2008 at 5:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Edwina, The bus station is only for the poor and eldery of Naples. If the rich, elite, and Collier County officials needed to use buses it would look like the Philharmonic and be downtown.
#7 Posted by bossman1 on May 9, 2008 at 6:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Can anyone believe the letter from Janet Vasey? Regardless of the content, what we have here is a member of one CC agency publically upbraiding another CC agency. You can bet there will be fallout from this!
#8 Posted by naplesregular on May 9, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
THERE WILL BE A QUIZ: Dennis pointed out that Ave Maria offers a course in Logic,-and it does.
However, the course is NOT titled "Logic and the Scientific Method". A plain logic course can teach students how to arrive at conclusions which are valid, -but NOT necessarily TRUE. Unless a logic course has the FULL title, UNSOUND (yet valid) CONCLUSIONS can be drawn from premises which have no scientific credibility. For example, in a plain logic course, Zeus can be shown to be the creator of the universe. Ave Maria's logic course is a prime example of how it is POSSIBLE for a student to be, Educated to Ignorance.
#9 Posted by NEOPTERA on May 9, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
THIS CONSERVATIVE SAYS: Hey Bruce. Do you like painless dentistry, antibiotics and air conditioning? These and more are all products of the LIBERAL mind my friend. If it were up to guys like you, we would still be burning young girls and old women every time the crops failed or someone's cow died. You hide behind a veil of morality while living as a parasite on the liberal thinking of others.
#10 Posted by NEOPTERA on May 9, 2008 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The day that William Schuch's LTTE was published blaming AIDS on Pope John Paul 11 and Pope Benedict I posted statistics showing his letter to be an outright lie...at that time Rationalman aggreed with Schuch and posted the same lie....NO ONE REFUTED MY STATISTICS TO THIS DAY!
briefly I pointed out that AIDS got it's foothold in Africa, through South Africa, between 1993-1999 and the goverment of the day ignored the problem and it spread...the goverment was too involved with their racial segregation
the fact is there are LESS THAN 6% OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN POPULATION WHO ARE CATHOLICS
and in the rest of Africa the predominant religion is Muslim which certainly has no birth control policy
despite the efforts of many agencies and the "boatload" of condoms, sex classes, etc a million peoples a day die of AIDS in South Africa and 5 million citizens are affected
so as Rationalman is wont to do ...repeat a lie enough times and hope some people believe it
#11 Posted by Canuck on May 9, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Bruce Durkee -
You say that you believe that gay couples should have all the rights of heterosexual couples. Yet you say it shouldn't be called marriage. Why not? The meaning of words change. The word gay has changed.
It has been considered that marriage was the union of a man and woman. Why can't marriage be the union of two people, regardless of gender? It was considered in the past that marriage was supposed to bring forth children. We are getting away from that belief about marriage. We are now considering marriage to mean the sharing of two lives. All heterosexual couples don't bring children into the world. Some couples don't want to bring any more children into this overcrowded world.
Gay marriage makes sense, because it brings equality to all our citizens.
Your explanation of abortion is too simplistic. How can you tell anyone not to have an abortion, regardless of what the stage of the pregancy is. Why don't we leave it up to the person who is pregnant and her doctor? They should have the last say as to when and if an abortion is performed.
The religious beliefs of the pro-life advocates should have no bearing on the situation. Religious people should keep their beliefs in their homes and in their churches and not in our secular laws. Religious freedom means that we have a right not to believe also.
#12 Posted by rationalman on May 9, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh my Canuck, how dare you use common sense and facts to dispute the irrationality posted by others?
I am not Catholic nor do I belong to any "organized religion." But blaming the Pope for the aids epidemic is too much of a stretch by anyone's standards. It's like blaming butterflies in Burma for hurricanes striking the Pacific coast of Panama.
#13 Posted by boulderbilly on May 9, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Edwina Barsano.....
The bus companies have not faired well in quite a few years. It is also the cheapest way to travel. How much are you willing to pay to move and improve the bus terminal here in Naples? I didn't think so.
#14 Posted by ladybug on May 9, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
On this ABORTION issue. Go to "pro-life answers" on the web. They have an answer for every argument pro-choice people put forth. The only one they have a problem with is MISCARRIAGE, OR SPONTANEOUS ABORTION. They can't explain why God would put a soul into a zygote at the moment of conception and then kill it later through miscarriage. I call these: Abortions by God.
#15 Posted by NEOPTERA on May 9, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So based on my last post #15: I submit.
Anything that God does, cannot be against God's laws. God performs early-term-abortion. Therefore early-term-abortion is not against the laws of God.
When they respond with; Only God Has The Right To Do Certain Things, they weaken their argument that abortion is an ABSOLUTE moral wrong.
#16 Posted by NEOPTERA on May 9, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I guess all the neocons will be at the Bush bash this weekend. Gonna be a warm one. Oh oh.
Hope Uncle Dick don't show up drunk with his shotgun again. Wonder if Mr. Whittington is on the invite list? Hope he learned last time when someone yells "DUCK" they ain't talkin' 'bout birds. LOL.
#17 Posted by boulderbilly on May 9, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Carol Jaffe,
I am for stopping wild fires and median fires but you are more anti-smoking than anything. Don't blame everything on smoking. What is more of an eyesore to me, is seeing trash in the canals and along side of the road. At least I can't see a butt as I drive by.
#18 Posted by ladybug on May 9, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
a couple of months ago...a domestic argument ended in murder when the husband knifed the wife in the stomach....the woman was 18 weeks pregnant and the trauma of the knife attack...not the knife itself... caused the woman to miscarry
NEOPTERA would have us believe God did this so abortion is a product of God's will
these anti religious zealots will go to unbelievable ends to blame God for the evils of men
abortion is legal in this country...but the irony with this situation is that the police are charging the man with TWO murders
in this case the unborn baby was declared a legal person
#19 Posted by Canuck on May 9, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I never said that the Pope is responsible for the AIDS epidemic. I said he is partially responsible, because he doesn't believe in contraception or birth control. I can't see how that is hard to understand. What is the Vatican doing about it? I'd like to know.
If religions are against the things that will help the world, I think they have to at least share some of the blame. All religions whether Muslim, Episcopalians (there are a lot of those in Africa), Catholic or tribal religions are not telling the people the truth and people suffer. The religions have failed the people of Africa because there is much hypocricy. Males in Africa are not faithful to their wives and they are like tomcats having sex with anyone they can. They spread AIDS from person to person.
Religions are a sham, and they don't do much to stop sexually transmitted diseases. Secularism is the only way to deal with AIDS and other dieases.
#20 Posted by rationalman on May 9, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"these antireligious zealots will go to unbelievable ends to blame God for the evils of men" by Canuck
If your God created men, then he made them evil. The Bible says that God created men in his image. If there is a God, then evil comes from him. Where else can it come from?
My personal belief is that evil is anything that is harmful to humans, the Earth and animals. I believe evil to be a sickness, and we have to find out how we can cure this sickness.
#21 Posted by rationalman on May 9, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
the freak show had his say again and as usual offers nothing but excuses for the dismal show in congress since the dimocrats took over. it's all freakio has left to hang on to. his kids don't talk to him. his neighbors completely ignore him. his two sons continue to support the mission. since the war has long been won and we are now in a peace keeping mode in iraq, it's difficult for him to pretend the fight is nothing more than what goes on in the streets of chicago. obama can't control the streets in his own city, so what makes freakio or any other useful idiot think good things are going to happen if obama is elected? obama rocks alright....to the tune of marxism and big oppresive government.
#22 Posted by skippy on May 9, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jim Anderson I found how to stop a lot of these calls that you have to wait 3 or 4 seconds before a voice comes on the line as soon as you figure it is a canned call hit the star button 4 or 5 times it screws up their system and most of the time deletes you from their calls
#23 Posted by pummalo on May 9, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
skippy, if I understand you correctly, and I think I do, you claim "the war has long been won..the fight is nothing more than what goes on in the streets of Chicago." Oh my.
I don't remember hearing about too many car bombs along the lake front last night in Chitown. How many headless corpses were found out front of Rigley Field this week?
Skippy, oh Skippy, come back to earth!!!!!
#24 Posted by boulderbilly on May 9, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wrong AGAIN, Canuck.
NEOPTERA wrote about SPONTANEOUS ABORTION (miscarriage), you know, that means it happens by itself without an obvious cause. It's entirely different to the case you referred to.
In your haste to jump in and knock the "anti-religious zealots", you forgot to read the post properly. It's something you do a lot.
#25 Posted by Nina6520 on May 9, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The religions have failed the people of Africa because there is much hypocricy. Males in Africa are not faithful to their wives and they are like tomcats having sex with anyone they can. They spread AIDS from person to person.
posted by rationalman today.
WOW, I cannot believe that you wrote that.
That is deeply racial and inflammatory.
You need to review the NDN rules.
I hope you are not sued.
#26 Posted by sheenabella on May 9, 2008 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
One school of thought is that human HIV came from SIV, a virus found in chimps, and that the virus made the jump due to the practice of eating bush meat (chimps mainly). Transmission is through exchange of bodily fluids so you don't have to have sex to get HIV and later full blown AIDS.
Don't go singling out African males for adultery, our country right here sports a wide variety of males in different races, religions, and whatnot who have problems keeping their pants on.
#27 Posted by Illiar on May 9, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"since the war has long been won and we are now in a peace keeping mode in iraq,"
I just love the Republicantdoaanythingrights reasoning. If the war is won then how come Democrats suggesting we bring home the troops are called "surrender monkeys" or some other derogatory term. How do you surrender after you won a war?
#28 Posted by anotherPOV on May 9, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I love it when liberals claim that liberal means having a mind, be adaptive, etc.
You want to know what a liberal is?
This is what a liberal is:
http://noisyroom.net/blog/2008/05/08/...
And freakio is a broken record.
#29 Posted by GoneFishin on May 9, 2008 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"CONCLUSIONS can be drawn from premises which have no scientific credibility..."
#9 Posted by NEOPTERA
Liberal environmental moonbats have been doing that very thing for decades now NEO. Are you still advocating man-made global warming from the premise of scientific credibility and the "sound science" Bruce J. Kennedy talked about in his letter today?
There is no scientifically valid mechanism for carbon dioxide creating global warming. How could all of those scientists be wrong you ask? They get paid to be wrong through billions of dollars in the form of government grants. Also, they do not make up a consensus.
The real cause of global warming is due to an increase in solar energy, as critics of man-made global warming generally claim. However, there is also evidence that it is due to variations in heat from the earth's core. The earth's core is fluid, in constant motion and heterogeneous, which adds up to variations in heat escaping to the surface.
Computer models (the only source of information for propagandists like Al Gore, including the IPCC) consider none of the basic tenants of science. Computer models are nothing but a fraudulent method of wiping out the scientific method of the subject.
"The public has a responsibility in determining whether social realities are based on rationality or fraud. There are highly visible differences. Rationality doesn't look anything like fraud. Rationality includes explanations and evidence. Fraud is forced down peoples' throats without explanations or evidence based on a fake consensus, which is nothing but mob rule. Authority is not enough. Throughout society including science, there tends to be a disconnect between authority and truth. Authorities are not allowed to produce the degree of criticism that society needs to solve its problems."
Gary Novak
So NEO, until you can convince me your perspective of "scientific credibility" includes all aspects of scientific endeavor, you are just blowing smoke.
#30 Posted by FreeSpeech on May 9, 2008 at 11:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Edwina,
It is futile to complain about the Greyhound bus station in the newspaper. The readers can do nothing about the situation.
The people of Naples paid for the Golden Gate overpass and the landscaping on Airport Road, but taxes can't be used to build a private facility.
Greyhound is a private enterprise. Complain to them.
#31 Posted by Nina6520 on May 9, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Don't go singling out African males for adultery, our country right here sports a wide variety of males in different races, religions, and whatnot who have problems keeping their pants on."
OH PLEASE!!!
#32 Posted by anotherPOV on May 9, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
re post #25...the alter ego jumps in
spontaneous abortion..otherwise known as miscarriage
Commonly called "miscarriage", spontaneous abortion is a pregnancy lost prior to viability, typically defined as 20 weeks from first day of last menstrual period of a fetus weighing less than 500 g. ...
www.emcom.ca/glossary/index.shtml
it does not say without "obvious cause" so it covers anytime a woman loses a fetus prior to 20 weeks..there always a medical reason
so again you pull the trigger without the facts
#33 Posted by Canuck on May 9, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Rationalman....why is it that the anti religious suffer from loss of memory when convenient...the day of Schuch's LTTE appeared you posted that you fully agreed with him when he said the Popes were responsible for AIDS in Africa
why don't you have the guts to stand by your statements
but that wasn't the same day you said the Pope looked like a drag queen because of his "dress"
but of course like your friend with the superior intelligence that was only an "opinion"
as for your other post God did make man in his image but also gave him FREE WILL TO OBEY OR NOT TO OBEY
if you did not have free will you would not be an agnostic or atheist nor would you be gay
God is so easy for you people to blame for all the ills of the earth instead of looking within on how man disobeys his teachings
#34 Posted by Canuck on May 9, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck,
I know exactly what a miscarriage is, having suffered two myself.
My point, which you have deliberately ignored (as usual), is that miscarriage cannot be equated to the loss of a pregnancy due to a knife attack.
Also, there may always be a medical reason for miscarriage, but it is very rarely known, so THE CAUSE IS NOT OBVIOUS. Women who suffer this loss are almost always told that it's just one of those things.
Perhaps you should stick to defending the faith and the Canadian health system - subjects you know something about.
#35 Posted by Nina6520 on May 9, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"How do you surrender after you won a war?"
#28 Posted by anotherPOV
well POV.....it's easy. you just go soft on crime like obama and all the rest of the useful idiots have always done. are the streets in chicago any safer since he has been elected? it's gotten worse, because obama fights every crime measure tooth and nail. he rejected every "tough on crime" proposal that came before him in the illinois senate. of course the dirtly little secret is, every liberal useful idiot is soft on crime. look at all the large u.s cities where there is a democratic mayor.....detroit, washington dc, philly, la, and i'll show you a war zone not unlike baghdad. at least in baghdad, we are doing something about it.
yes, the military aspect of the war was won a long time ago in iraq. saddam's military machine was crushed in short order. dude.....our soldiers did not come home because the peace keeping phase required them to say. besides, the new iraqi government asked for them to stay. they will come home when iraq can keep law and order.
your rage against bush is not only unfounded, it is pathetic in light of your stance on crime in america's largest cities.
"surrender monkey" obama rocks to the tune of "soft on crime." now that's a catchy name for a potential theme song for his campaign.
#36 Posted by skippy on May 9, 2008 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's ridiculous to blame the Democratic Congress for the mess we're in. They have no power to do much of anything. Bush's veto power determines what will be or not be.
What we're seeing is the ballooning of a flawed policy that began when Bush and the neo cons got into office. It was like a giant snowball that got rolling and grew and grew. It's difficult to stop because it has created immense ramifications.
As for spontaneous abortion, I guess that means abortion is okay when God does it, but not okay when man does it.
There is one person who should have say over abortion and that's the woman. It's her body, and until the fetus is born and a separate entity, the woman comes first.
If we mandate that abortion is illegal, women's care during pregnancy is in jeopardy. Doctors will be afraid to care for pregnant women because if they have a miscarriage both the woman and the doctor could be accused of murder. How does one prove one is innocent in a miscarriage. Women and doctors would be on trial constantly. With this kind of a nightmare, you will see few doctors who will treat pregnant women.
The government has no right intervening into the private health decisions of any person.
This is strictly a religious belief, and one person's religious belief should not dominate another person's life.
#37 Posted by truthmatters on May 9, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck,
Post #34 - your remark about memory loss is ironic coming from you! You 'remember' that I said the religion-free had superior intelligence when I SAID NO SUCH THING. I most definitely do not believe, and it's ludicrous to say, that intelligence has anything to do with race, gender, sexual orientation or religion.
Intelligence is in the genes.
I happen to have an IQ of 136 (tested and confirmed by MENSA), and if you want to dispute that that is higher than average, go ahead, but IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING AN ATHEIST.
Is that clear enough now, or are you going to continue with the childish games?
#38 Posted by Nina6520 on May 9, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Don't go singling out African males for adultery, our country right here sports a wide variety of males in different races, religions, and whatnot who have problems keeping their pants on."
OH PLEASE!!!
#32 Posted by anotherPOV
well, there is a huge difference between adultry and honoring god through love within a family unit. i just know pov and rationalman will get a warm fuzzy feeling with this story.
"It's a happy Mother's Day for an Arkansas woman — she's pregnant with her 18th child. Michelle Duggar, 41, is due on New Year's Day, and the latest addition will join seven sisters and 10 brothers.
She and her husband, Jim Bob Duggar, said they'll keep having children as long as God wills it.
'The success in a family is first off, a love for God, and secondly, treating each other like you want to be treated,' Jim Bob Duggar said. 'Our goal is for each one of our children to be best friends, and everybody working together to serve each other makes that happen.'"
By JILL ZEMAN, Associated Press Writer
doesn't that just bring tears of joy into your heart? All that love and devotion within the family of one husband and one wife.
#39 Posted by skippy on May 9, 2008 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck -
You are so easy to disagree with, because you are so irrational. I don't ever recall saying that I agreed with Schuch. I did say in an earlier post that I believed the Pope to be partially responisble for the AIDS epidemic, because he doesn't do anything to stop it. Again,I repeat myself, that he doesn't believe in doing things to stop sexual diseases. Abstinance is not enough.
Anyone that believes that God gives people
FREE WILL should have their heads examined. You didn't answer my question about where evil comes from. If God didn't create evil, it had to come from somewhere. If it comes from the Devil, then it still comes from God, because according to the Bible, God created the Devil.
If God gives humans free will, then God doesn't care whether people are evil or not. You said that God gives people free will to be an agnostic, atheist or gay. Why would he do that? I should think he would want everyone to worship him and be straight.
You think the opposite than I do, so it is futile to discuss religion with you. Maybe some other people will appreciate learning about a different way of looking at things. You are indoctrinated and not able to think for yourself. I should ignore you, because it's like talking to a stone wall.
#40 Posted by rationalman on May 9, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Shenabella - #26
You said that what I wrote about African men being promiscuous is "deeply racial and inflamatory" and I could be sued. How so? I should have added that they don't use condoms because they are taught it is wrong to use birth control methods. That is what their religions teach them, regardless of what that religion might be. When religions teach their followers not to use contraceptives, I think those religions are guilty of murder.
It's been written in various publications countless of times that what I have said is true and is not in the least a racial or inflamatory matter. There is a lot of superstition in Africa and it has done much harm to those people to make progress.
Yes, there is a lot of promiscuity in this country also. There will probably always be sexual activity outside of marriage. At least in this country people use protection to keep from getting AIDS and other sexual diseases. In Africa and some other backward countries people don't take precautions and they not only contract diseases, they are multiplying like flies.
#41 Posted by rationalman on May 9, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
skippy-
I am from a town near the Duggars in Arkansas. They are white supremacists. You should hear the garbage Jim Bob spouts to the community. All of the children are taught to believe as their parents do. Do you still have joy in your heart?
#42 Posted by marcoislandgal on May 9, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
skippy #39
The family that you wrote about doesn't have any regard for the sustainability of the Earth. They should be neutered and sterilized. If everyone breeds like they do, this world would soon become an impossibly crowded place to live.
Another example of irrational religious people who claim that God wills large families.
#43 Posted by rationalman on May 9, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow. "Paper Oil"
http://rense.com/general81/pure.htm
#44 Posted by GoneFishin on May 9, 2008 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"All of the children are taught to believe as their parents do. Do you still have joy in your heart?"
#42 Posted by marcoislandgal
as long as they are not taught "black liberation theology," i'm all for the parents teaching their children about love, sharing and responsibility. yes, there is great joy in my heart with that prospect, unlike the rationale of rationalman who said:
"They should be neutered and sterilized."
rationalman is so tolerant of other people, so loving, so respectful of family values. "neuter and sterilize them," he says.
is this the kind of "change" you are hoping for in america? germany experimented with that philosophy and look at what that change brought to the world.
#45 Posted by skippy on May 9, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't go singling out African males for adultery, our country right here sports a wide variety of males in different races, religions, and whatnot who have problems keeping their pants on."
"OH PLEASE!!!
#32 Posted by anotherPOV
well, there is a huge difference between adultry and honoring god through love within a family unit. i just know pov and rationalman will get a warm fuzzy feeling with this story"
Not even related.
Skippy, your stupidity is equaled only by Jagged's.
I guess because there are millionaires in Africa and millionaires in America we can say that Africa and America possess similar wealth.
"How do you surrender after you won a war?"
#28 Posted by anotherPOV
well POV.....it's easy. you just go soft on crime like obama and all the rest of the useful idiots have always done. are the streets in chicago any safer since he has been elected? it's gotten worse, because obama fights every crime measure tooth and nail. he rejected every "tough on crime" proposal that came before him in the illinois senate. of course the dirtly little secret is, every liberal useful idiot is soft on crime. look at all the large u.s cities where there is a democratic mayor.....detroit, washington dc, philly, la, and i'll show you a war zone not unlike baghdad. at least in baghdad, we are doing something about it."
Nothing to do with each other, your getting dumber by the minute.
#46 Posted by anotherPOV on May 9, 2008 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No, skippy, it doesn't bring joy to my heart when people have a litter of children. I find it revolting and disgusting. There's no need to have so many children and it's been proven many times that children from smaller families fare better.
Children need to know they are special, not just one of the herd, and they need individual attention from each parent. In the Duggers' case, the older children are raising the younger ones, and that's not parenting.
God does not make babies. Sex makes babies. rationalman is right, Jim Bob should be neutered.
#47 Posted by Nina6520 on May 9, 2008 at 1:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
skippy-
Is it "love, sharing and responsibility" when they preach to their children and others about white superiority? Anti-semitism? Anti- black? Anti-gay? Racial Segregation? Not to mention, that woman are submissive and metally inferior to men? How are the Duggars any different from FLDS or the KKK?
#48 Posted by marcoislandgal on May 9, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Edwina, that "somebody" is Greyhound, why not write them?
Bossman1 thinks if the rich rode the buses in Naples the facility would be improved. That must mean only rich people take the buses in Tampa and Ft. Myers since their facilities are "state of the art". It couldn't possibly mean that the low usage of buses in Naples regardless of income is the reason and that capitol improvements would naturally go to the most used areas. That's just business, but that's hard to comprehend for an idiot class envy socialist.
#49 Posted by 1quik91 on May 9, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
per NEOPTERA,
The "liberal mind" brought us painless dentistry, antibiotics and air conditioning?
Liberalism or conservatism had nothing to do with it, try Capitalism.
With all your other rants, I would say you are an almost off the chart leftist space cadet. You also speak of "abortion by God", he must have been napping when you were in the womb, too bad.
#50 Posted by 1quik91 on May 9, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
#41 by Rationalman to sheenabella...another example of telling a lie often enough someone might believe it:
"You said that what I wrote about African men being promiscuous is "deeply racial and inflamatory" and I could be sued. How so? I should have added that they don't use condoms because they are taught it is wrong to use birth control methods. That is what their religions teach them, regardless of what that religion might be. When religions teach their followers not to use contraceptives, I think those religions are guilty of murder."
now other than the Catholic faith what other religion denies their adherents the use of birth control....we have already posted FACTS THAT CATHOLICS make up less than 6% of the population
so tell us what other faith denies the people the use of condoms that you would call murderers??
as for your post on free will is all you can do is insult people who have opposite views...I do not need to have my head examined....there goes that superiority of agnostics and atheists that any body who does not agree with them is of less intelligence..as your grandmother friend has said
your blindness does not let you understand....God did not give free willfor people to murder... be a pedofile.. or be angnostic, atheist, gay or whatever.....THAT IS CHOICE OF THE HUMAN BEING!!
God does care whether man is evil or not... that is why there are consequences of the way we live our lives......which of course you don't believe
you are also very easy to diagree with as you post insults disguised as opinions without facts and when confronted say "you are entrenched and it is like talking to a brick wall"
we welcome to reality Rationalman because you are so singleminded to bash religion it affects your thinking
so you can disregard me all you want..but when you posts untruths you will hear from me
#51 Posted by Canuck on May 9, 2008 at 3:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
post #38 proves my claim that she used the term "superior intelligence" when descibing her belief...why else would she post:
"I happen to have an IQ of 136 (tested and confirmed by MENSA), and if you want to dispute that that is higher than average, go ahead, but IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING AN ATHEIST."
no need to tell us of her mensa proved I.Q. level of 136 if not to confirm she has a higher intelligence...a little bit of swagger??
next time I am with a friend whose wife is also a mensa member I will have to ask her to check the mensa rolls
too bad the hatred of God clouds that I.Q.
#52 Posted by Canuck on May 9, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
FREE SPEECH #30. I didn’t mention anything in my posts about global warming, but since you brought it up: I don’t know whether by century’s end the earth will be warmer or cooler, nor do I know what, if anyone, will be the cause of it. It is not easy to Think Scientifically. The prerequisite for use of the Scientific Method of Problem Solving is to: COMPLETELY clear the mind of politics, patriotism, religion, the Bible, notions of Race, or what a parent may have believed. This includes anything which may keep one from arriving at an OBJECTIVE conclusion concerning the variable under investigation. You mentioned Al Gore. IF Al Gore is getting his information from the kind of people I described above, then chances are it is credible. If not, further investigation is needed. Either way, it is up to all of us, including myself, to continually question what we believe to be the truth.
#53 Posted by NEOPTERA on May 9, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm off to have my head examined.
#54 Posted by mikesgirl on May 9, 2008 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
1QUICK91: POST #50: You gave me an interesting thought. I wonder if Capitalism gave rise to Liberalism, or Liberalism gave rise to Capitalism? Certainly, Conservatism, in maintaining the status quo, gives rise to nothing.
#55 Posted by NEOPTERA on May 9, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What if everyone had eighteen children? How crowded would our world be because those 18 would have 18 and the growth would be exponential.
Also, who would pay the costs of their education, their medical, etc.? What could they contribute to the building of the infrastructure, for with 18 children they'd have so many tax deductions they'd pay no taxes.
Maybe years ago on the farm one could have larger families and the children went to a little country school up to 8th grade and then went no further, maybe then those large numbers could be handled.
I remember a Catholic woman in my home town who had 15 children and then got Hodgkins disease and died. She said she would go to hell if she practiced birth control, so she said she'd rather suffer those years in pain and misery here than an eternity in the afterlife. Now, that is pathetic, and with things like that I couldn't stay in that church another minute.
Another friend who played in our bridge group had a nervous break down having 3 children one right after another. She said she couldn't handle anymore, but was Catholic, so she couldn't see any way out. After spending 4 months in a mental hospital, they let her go home for Christmas. While she was home she took strichnine and while she was dying she dragged herself to the priest's house 2 blocks away to say her last confession, and there she died. Three children were left with no mother.
The Catholic church has no heart for the plight of families or women. They are a male dominated hierarchical institution that rules by fear of mortal sin and hell.
#56 Posted by truthmatters on May 9, 2008 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck,
What is the matter with you? I have said repeatedly that intelligence has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION. Why do you KEEP SAYING that I claim intelligence and atheism are linked? Could you stop? You just sound stupid repeating yourself. I can't keep telling you that one has nothing to do with the other, at some point, it must sink in.
I don't hate God. I don't love God. God is a myth.
Is being a grandmother something to be ashamed of now? Isn't your wife a grandmother? I am proud. Why shouldn't I be?
"God does care whether man is evil or not... that is why there are consequences of the way we live our lives......which of course you don't believe" Post #51 - Canuck
You are so brainwashed that you cannot see the how illogical this statement is! God doesn't want us to be evil, but if we are good, honest, loving, fair, considerate, hard-working people who don't worship him, he'll burn us in hell for eternity!! Nice.
Any rational person knows that the purpose of punishemnt is to make the offender behave better. Since there is no escape from the eternal burning for 'sinners', what is God's purpose for this punishment? It would be cruel and vincictive if it were true.
Fortunately, it is not.
In my opinion, to which I am entitled.
No, this is not an attack, an insult or me trying to change your religion.
#57 Posted by Nina6520 on May 9, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Equality is what wil bring this world together. Sadly it will never happen. We have several writers in here that presume to be "better" than others simply for their way of thinking.
These boards are saturated with hatred. Its the same people stating the same opinions over and over again.
Heres just a suggestion. I do this all the time. If theres a TV program im uninterested in... i simply do not tune in. Im a hetro so i dont go to Gay establishments. I dont bother them, and you know what,they dont bother me.
Canuck stated that God gives us free will. Its true. We all make our own choices. We all know right from wrong. The basics anyways. Some think that because they feel a certain way about something, they must be right and everyone else is wrong. Thats so far from the truth its not even remotely funny.
Canuck did you choose to be straight? Did you decide when you were born you were going to be attracted only to the opposite sex? Was there a choice to be made or were you born straight?
Gay people dont "chose" to be gay. They are born the same way you were. Its already there.Its not a choice. Unless to you, youre struggling with your own sexuality. Thats the only thing i can think of when people say gays choose to be gay. They have tendencies of their own. Canuck id like an answer. When in your life did you use your freewill and "choose" to be a hetrosexual? As a child? As an adult? Please elaborate.
#58 Posted by BobbyD on May 9, 2008 at 4:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Truthmatters,
Excellent post.
I wonder if those heartbreaking stories touched the heart of skippy who, I'll wager, is male.
Forcing women to have children they do not want is NEVER okay. Pressure should be brough to bear on the Pope to change the Catholic stance on contraception.
#59 Posted by Nina6520 on May 9, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BobbyD
Welcome, and kudos to you for an excellent post.
#60 Posted by Nina6520 on May 9, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No, rationalman,
You did not write "promiscuous"
You wrote:
"Males in Africa are not faithful to their wives and they are like tomcats having sex with anyone they can. They spread AIDS from person to person."
You did not use the word "promiscuous" in your post at all.
You did not use the word "some" or "many."
There was no reason to pinpoint one nation.
You insulted them, free and clear.
"Tomcat?"
How rude and totally insensitive to the feelings of others.
Your choice of words is very poor, and offensive to many.
It would be nice if you thought about what you wrote, and reread it to yourself from another person's point of view, before you post it on a public forum,
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but making a staement like you did, and the way that you worded it, is offensive..
Please be more aware of your wording.
I would also like you to post the exact places where I can find the "various publications" that say;
"Males in Africa are not faithful to their wives and they are like tomcats having sex with anyone they can. They spread AIDS from person to person."
Thank you.
#61 Posted by sheenabella on May 9, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
re post #57....so little you know......
no one has ever said a non believer who does good in life..and follows the golden rule will not share in the rewards God has promised.....all Christian faiths teach this tenet as well as you do not have to be a Christian ......so your statement is wrong
however those who blaspheme God may have a tougher time in sharing these rewards and insulting the beliefs of your fellow human beings fall into this category
the non believers that I have met in my life do not demean their fellow Christian beliefs and keep their beliefs to themselves
you and your friends have been taken to task for what you posts but nobody has ridiculed atheism or agnosticism like religion has been insulted on this forum
as for superior intelligence you can deny all you want but you will not stop me knowing you said it in conjunction with your belief...I am just sorry NDN does not have archives
just read the anti religion posts...they are full of comments that if you are a believer you have "little intelligence"...just today.."you should have your head examined"..."you are brainwashed".... and it goes on and on saying we have less intelligence than you and your friends
in the same vein that you referred to me as "a 70 year old"...I referred to you as a grandmother which you are...don't know why you get your shirt in a knot when grandmother is used
#62 Posted by Canuck on May 9, 2008 at 4:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
re post #58....BobbyD....in re-reading my post on free will...I was wrong to include "gay" in my explanadion of free will.... genetic scientists are still at odds what determines our sexuality either at birth or later in life
I do apologize for that reference
#63 Posted by Canuck on May 9, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sheenabella - #61
Alright, I should have said some men have sex outside of marriage. As far as tomcats is concerned, there are men like that in this country too. I used the word to add emphasis. I guess it was not a nice thing to say as far as your delicate sensibilities are concerned. You need to face reality. I mentioned Africa, because that is where the AIDS epidemic is the worst.
Whether you like it or not, the reality is that "some" or "many" men in Africa are taught that it is macho to have sex with many women. They think it is not macho to use condoms. They feel it will take away their manliness. And, yes they are taught by their religions that using condoms is against God's will. Their religions teach it is God's will to have large families. The Muslims teach that also, and some of their native religions. It is hard to get the people in Africa to use birth control methods. I'm sure you can find information on the internet. I've read about these things, but I can't remember where I read everything.
#64 Posted by rationalman on May 9, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Vicky Parsons letter to the editor deservers the most attention! Well done, Vicky. The Trilateral Commission, the CFR, the Bilderberg group, as well as other Rockefeller and Rothschild financed groups would like to see our national borders dissolved and our sovereignty lost with tribunals in place that would supercede the constitution and supreme court.
As far as RFID/VeriChip technology, check your new passports, your neighbor's pets, national volunteers who've had them implanted and consider how, after a majority of those polled rejected the idea of chip implants, we seem to be surrounded by them.
Google everything Vicky said, but, of course, only after the presently critical flag lapel pin controversy is resolved and you cool off with a nice cold glass of fluoridated water.
#65 Posted by robrust on May 9, 2008 at 5:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
To set the record straight. I believe in ethics, not religion. The Bible does teach some ethics. Religion doesn't necessarily teach ethics. You can have a lot of religion and have no ethics. Just going to church and engaging in rituals is not ethics. Believing in dogma is not ethics. Believing in gods, angels devils, demons and supernatural beings is not ethics. Believing in heaven and hell is not ethics.
All we need to be good citizens and responsible human beings is ethics. Ethics is a system of morality, where no one does things that harm other people. If we follow an ethical code, we don't need any religion. Religions take away the true meaning of morality and ethics.
I know lots of ethical people who are not religious. I know other people who are religious who are not ethical.
#66 Posted by rationalman on May 9, 2008 at 5:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey, what did Tomcats ever do to you?
#67 Posted by cupcake on May 9, 2008 at 6:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck,
The fact that you are 70 years old was relevant to my post as I said you were being childish. My being a grandmother has no relevance to anything posted here.
Saying someone should have their head examined or is brainwashed is NOT the same as saying they are of inferior intelligence. You just want to moan and believe you are being insulted. Members of the God club think EVERYTHING is an insult;
The Pope looks silly - I'm insulted!
African men put it about - I'm insulted!
Religion does more harm than good - I'm insulted!
on an on and on.
I have NEVER said intelligence and belief are related. Why would I when I don't belive it AND HAVE SAID I DON'T BELIEVE IT REPEATEDLY?
Plenty of nasty things have been said about atheists on this forum - I am just sorry the NDN
does not have archives, too, because you have conveniently forgotten them.
Do you recall a couple of weeks back when enigma absolutely, definitely and without a doubt in his mind 'remembered' that I said I own a restaurant and several other things that are not true? That is the case here - you believe it, so you think you remember me saying it.
What was that you said earlier about a lie being repeated often enough.......