: )

Obama
08

Yeah, change from bad to worse. Change to "redistribution" (aka socialism). Change isn't always for the better. We are toast. With Pelosi, Reid, and Obama, there will be no stopping them.

Ironically, Kennedy wouldn't have fit in the current Democrat party - it's about a thousand miles to the left of where he was politically.

I wonder if all the republicans are going to continue to whine and act un-American if their candidate loses. Seems that way around here...

Socialism, you would think that an adult would be able to think for themselves instead of just spouting off some KKKarl Rove cliche from a campaign.

Face it your next President of the United States will not be McCain. He couldn't run a bake sale and his campaign has proven it.

Have you noticed even Palin has bailed on him, she is worried that his landslide defeat will hurt her future as an infomercial host.

The "conservatives" have bankrupted the nation, destroyed the middle class, made the concept of "working" as opposed to "owning" a slightly less disagreeable notion than wading across the Rio Grande, and installed a corporate shadow administration that would happily adopt the tactics of a police state to retain its power.

But their gig is up, or so it appears.

Rather than stick around and clean up the mess they've made during their orgy of greed and cronyism, they're playing the race card, screaming about "socialism" and heading off to their bunkers like the hungover frat boy they wanted to have a beer with.

That leaves the rest of the country to try and fix everything they've ruined and to pay off the $11 trillion debt their "fiscal conservatism" has left like a steaming heap for our children to settle.

Heckuva job, Bushie. And Reagan. And Friedman. And Cheney. And all the howling fat cats who've ridden the glory train to the artificial pinnacle of materialism Naples so aptly represents. Yeah, Eagle Forum, we're talking to you. Go trickle on yourselves for a while.

As for Reid and Pelosi, I don't know why anyone is worried; they're too ineffectual to scare anyone but a dittohead.

Since they've assumed the majority leadership in Congress, that body has continued to facilitate the erosion of civil liberties and the Constitution. It has done nothing to force a public airing of the politicization of the Justice Department at the behest of Karl Rove. It's been useless in providing oversight to a corrupt administration or an end to an immoral war fought, apparently, for reasons only a shareholder could appreciate.

ms. kennedy is typically sent to represent the family at funerals. go figure.

Oh, what a change it would be to get the liberal, rot-headed monster called the Kennedy family out of American politics.

kneejerk,

Lets make a deal. I'll give your Democrat President the same support you gave Bush for the past eight years.... ZERO.

elnuestros

I couldn't agree more.

The Cubans who were going to Obama just went to McCain cause of the Kennedy connection. Mccain Palin 08

Sanity....

I didn't like how Bush stole the election in 2000, and I had trouble supporting him for that reason. I did, however, jump on the bandwagon when he invaded Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks.

But when he recklessly utilized our troops in Iraq on faulty intel, deliberate misrepresentations, cherry-picked evidence, and outright lies, I could no longer support the village idiot. He sent our troops into Iraq ill prepared (to put mildly), with no plan to win the peace and no exit strategy. How could anybody support that?

Welcome to Naples, Caroline Kennedy!

The Democrats get a visit from Caroline Kennedy and the Republicans get a visit from Roberta McCain. LOL, gotta love it!

Barack Obama = Redistribution of Intelligence

THE CHANGE WE NEED

I hope there are more details so that I can plan on attending. I love the Democratic rallies - such a great cross section of people all pulling for our country. Some of you Repubs should attend - you might learn something.

Ironside,

Are you one of those bitter Democrats still hung up about that election? He stole the election? Our supreme court ruled in his favor, get over it.

As far as your point about the war, please get your facts straight. The Democrats saw the same intel that Bush saw and voted for the war. The blame goes all around for the mess in Iraq. The President can't go to war without congress approval. It's called the War Powers Clause FYI.

LieStopper,

If there is anybody here who I hope packs their bags and moves to North Korea when McCain wins, its you.

Much of Naples' wealth originates from the midwest. You know, the "good old days" when there was no outsourcing, rightsourcing, etc. We had no global competition. We made our money or our parents did and lots of it. The next two or three generations are in for some tough times.
We have become a divided nation. Its' youth yearns for leadership and progress. Let's face it, tomorrow's youth will be reporting to Chinese and Indian bosses around the world. Americans will lose their edge in everything if we continue to operate like we have the last 20 years!
Put aside the political and religious bickering that has hurt our nation.
Think about our America!!
Think The United States of America!!

Obama was caught on tape in 2001 emplainng his socialistic agenda which is the carl marx way amd still the kool-aid drinkers make up excuses.
He meant, ah its taken out of context, ah, ah, ah,

grouper25 - McCain was caught on tape cheating on his first wife. I don't care that he did it, but the fact that he was dumb enough to get caught is indicative of his poor judgment and disqualifies him. He's history on 11/04. Deal with it.

No7#--Sanity?????

I could not agree with your sentiment more however, you sound resigned to the eventual outcome which may be very pre-mature!!!

Hang in there, then we can react!!!!!!!!!!

Grouper 25,

After reading your entry #17, I am beginning to understand how we have become so polarized.

typical poster, comparing an affair with a woman to Obama taking the country to socialism then denying it.
sounds like thedudesview is worried he's not gonna get a handout. try working instead of waiting for obama's distribution.

grouper25-- My post was just to provide you with an example of how stupid your post was. I have worked harder and longer than you'll ever work. LieStopper and I will party when you move or at your funeral, whichever comes first.

since i'm a registered democrat who is voting for mccain i would put myself as one who is not drinking the kool-aid.
i do not feel sorry for the Obama supporters i look at them many ways, first you have the amnesty supporters for 20 million illegals, the welfare supports hoping to get an increase in gov programs, the far far left who want the Marxist type gov, and the i'm voting dem cause my daddy was a dem,
to be continued as i have to go to work

Sanity,

Not true. The Senate and Congress only saw the intel the Bush admin allowed them to see. Some fabricated, most of it faulty, all of it cherry-picked.

The Iraq War vote gave Bush permission to invade Iraq in the case our homeland and/or troops in the region became threatened by Iraq. Bush took it upon himself to invade when no threat was present. Bush refused to let the UN Inspectors complete their job.

The war in Iraq is Bush's baby. Plain and simple. You can't spin that one.

McCain will continue spending $10 billion a month in Iraq. McCain/Palin is a vote for the status quo.

VOTE FOR:
Obama/Biden '08
Change we can believe in.
YES WE CAN!

grouper25.....

McCain stands for nothing the Democrats stand for. I would suggest you change parties. You're a Republican, whether you realize it or not.

I challenge you to give my one Democratic value McCain holds, that Obama doesn't?

http://www.arlenwilliams.com/obama_ca...

John Kennedy is probably rolling over in his grave. He was an ANTI-COMMUNIST!

Ironside,

http://theanchoressonline.com/2005/11...

SENATOR Hillary Clinton saw the intel and supported the war as other Democrats did when they voted for it. Are you saying that your elected officials voted on something they had no clue about? Say it ain't so!

It's so inconvenient when facts get in the way of your drivel.

Oh and Ironside.... When you work with the truth, no spin is necessary. Enojoy your day hippie.

*enjoy

ecoterror, your post was well stated...couldn't agree more....a refeshing statement indeed!

The word 'terror' scares me though. -)

Boy oh Boy!!!!!!!!!!!

Liestopper or lieteller, Ironside or Ironhead????

Both have enough mouth for another row of liberal Democrat Teeth!!!!!

I ain't goin no where, so let's see!!!

Ironside and LieStopper(Spreader): While your scouring the Internet for stuff to copy/paste here attacking McCain, try to force yourselves to find some of the quotes of Democrats during the Clinton years talking about how bad Iraq and Saddam were. You'll find they used much the same language that this administration did. There was one difference though...the Democrats just ran their mouths and didn't actually do much about it.

Pauls,

Plenty of quotes right here. I'm trying to cure Ironside of his FDD (Fact Distortion Disorder)
Unfortunately, the patient has no chance if he continues to expose himself to Democrats.

http://theanchoressonline.com/2005/11...

Sanity. Ironside is a "HER" not a his. I know. She does have one thing in common with Raymond Burr though?

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". Quote from President John F. Kennedy's inaugural address, 1961. JFK is rolling over in his grave!

I wonder if all the Obama voters will whine and complain if O wins and they see that the country is going to heck in a hand basket under his rule. Mark my words, not one of ya will admit that you voted for the smooth talking dude.

I am a registered Republican who has voted for Obama (at least, that's the little bubble I filled in). The Republican party, as I knew it, is now dead, and I will be changing to Independent after this year. There are two republican parties now, as I see it. Those of us who voted for McCain in 2000, and then the neo-cons, who somehow liked Bush/Cheney. The split is so deep now, that the neo-cons are giving the Republicans a bad name, and have managed to control the party completely. They have claimed ideas that belong to Americans as their own, and have fostered a divisive spirit so penetrating that we are seeing labels thrown around like water, and people actually believe the things they hear. Their speeches are akin to high school pep rallies which stop just short of inciting riots, using fear and sometimes, just plain hate. These tools run counter to reason and logic, which once were core beliefs in this party, tools that Obama uses in all his speeches, not just once in a while. It's OK to disagree in America, that was the underlying principle that founded our country. It's not OK to call people names simply because they don't agree with you. Remember, you are an American first, and we should be treating each other this way. Try to demonstrate just a little respect for one another's opinions.

The Republicans are getting restless. LOL

Tuesday can't get here fast enough.

Woo Hoo - President Barack Hussein Obama.

Change we can believe in.
YES WE CAN!

Change we can believe in.

Well, there's good change and there's bad change.

Which one will it be, hmmm!

The Republican Party has lost itself. Bring back the moderate, fiscal conservatives, the diplomats, those that valued civil liberties, and were interested in promoting bipartisanship.

The current iteration of the Grand Old Party just seems old. I find it laughable that some still defend the Bush legacy. Bush started an illegal war and let a legitimate one fail, he has destroyed the economy, has promoted a degradation of our rights, all while being the most obstructionist and divisive president in the history of the United States.

Obama represents the best opportunity to move away from those policies. For those that believe attaching labels like terrorist and socialist will make moderate, independent voters more likely to vote McCain, you are wrong. If you want a socialist, they appear on the ballot as such. If you want a party that is not for socialism, vote for the Libertarians. Otherwise, take an unbiased view at the last eight years. Both parties have failed, but none so spectacularly as the Republicans.

Post #9 couldn’t be more right on the money. JFK left the Cuban exiles out to hang when he didn’t send air support for them thereby signing their death warrants. It was soon after this that Nikita Khrushchev saw what a phony wimp JFK was that he started shipping nukes to Cuba. Who could forget that little chapter of our nation’s history? The stand-off didn’t end until the US removed nukes from Turkey. Yet nobama is going to stand up to the thugs of this world and protect us? Yeah when pigs fly. Say no to the Chicago messiah.

neoneapolitan...

Well said!

RedRyder..quite trying to rewrite history!!!!!

the removal of the Jupitor missles from Turkey did not happen until 4 months after Khruschev caved in and removed the missiles from Cuba with the only caveat that the US recognize the borders of Cuba

the Jupitor missles were removed because they were obsolete and they were also removed from Italy at the same time

they were replaced with the Polaris missles on submarines in the Mediterranean

the official White House tapes of the 11 days in October 1962 have just been released and are on the internet....interesting reading

'Ol "Air Quotes" McCain soon will really need Joe the plumber
"Ol"Air Quotes" McCain is down the drain...
-------------------------------------
American Casualties in Iraq
The Human Cost of Occupation
4188

Latest Fatality October 24, 2008
--------------------------------------
The SPREAD THE WEALTH tour is gearing up, coming to a working class citizen near you.

On the menu for the Obama / Biden Celebration dinner...
BAKED ALASKA FOR EVERYONE

DRILL BABY DRILL DRILL BABY DRILL

Ironside
You are totally brainwashed by the liberal media and deceived as well. How about the 500 tons of yellowcake which is used to make nuclear weapons that was removed from Iraq in 2007. The liberal media never reported that one did they. The question about WMD has now been solved. And stop crying that Bush stole the 2000 election. Admit it that was caused by people like you who didn't know how to vote Duh!!!!!!!!
Just say NO to Obama vote McCain / Palin I am.

First Step of a Socialist government disarm the public, this was the 1st thing Fidel Castro did to the Cubans when he took over. Obama wants to get rid of our right to bare arms. Things that make you go HUMMMMM.

I have no need to re write history. Your post reiterates my point when you stated “the removal of the Jupitor missiles from Turkey did not happen until 4 months after Khrushchev caved in”. The facts are that the US Air Force ended the Jupitor program six months after the missile crisis ended. That part of history is also out there.

Spec - Obama does not want to take your "right" to own guns away from you. That could never happen, as all you paranoid gunlovers would throw such a fit and no politician would vote for it. The only way you could lose your guns is if they just happen to get stolen as they usually do because of your own carelessness, and end up in the hands of some vicious criminals who run around our cities on a daily basis in this country shooting innocent people for the fun of it. Wonder who the NRA's latest poster boy is today? There's a new one each and every day it seems. Sad, very sad.

#54......you ignore the fact that the missile removal was not part of the agreement for the USSR to remove the missiles from Cuba as you have stated!!

the fact is that the Jupitor program was obsolete and missle protection for Turkey....... which the Soviets wanted removed so close to their border.....was replaced by Polaris missiles on submarines

In a recent session of the Supreme Court they did in fact have a Washington, D.C., law brought before them which stated, "the local government could impose a gun ban law to even law abiding citizens." Also, the right to keep and bear arms was not meant to be an individual's right. This law was deemed unconstitutional by the court and struck down. But what you may not know is your Second Amendment right was only upheld by a 5-to-4 decision. Yes, by just one vote your right to keep and bear arms was upheld. This is how Obama, without saying the word guns, will do away with your Second Amendment right.

Experts and pundits alike all agree that due to the age of the Supreme Court Justices, the next president will be picking at least one if not two new justices.

So just by picking more liberal judges and stacking the court to the left, Obama will do away with your Second Amendment rights. Nothing in his past would suggest he would appoint anything but a liberal judge to the bench. And nothing would suggest a Democratic-controlled Congress would confirm anything but a liberal judge. After that, it's just a matter of time before another city that can't provide protection for its people overreaches and passes another law that will eventually make it before the Supreme Court. Or maybe it will come directly from a Democratic-controlled congress. Either way, once the Supreme Court is stacked to the left it's only a matter of time before your right to keep and bear arms is infringed on. Your right to protect yourself, your right to protect your children or the right for your sons and daughters to protect themselves or their children from harm or even an oppressive government if need be again. And don't forget, Supreme Court justices are appointed for life! So once it's gone it may never come back.

America and the Constitution are a precious gift from God. And some gifts are only given once.

My family being from Cuba and being one of first ones to leave in the 60's when they smelled a "RAT" the same "RAT" Fidel Castro that alot the Cubans that remained believed in and were blinded or just plain ignorant and thought he would be good for Cuba. Where is Cuba now? have any of you ever been there? well let me tell you it's not a pretty sight. My Parents cannot believe what they are witnessing coming from Obama. They never thought it would happen to this country the same thing and all of you Obama supporters are falling for it. So sad that what America stands for soon will no longer be if that man is elected into office. Yoyu all just don't know...

Spec,

Please note that Obama favors gun control, not the abolishment of your Second Amendment Rights. As a gun owner myself (S&W MP9mm), I am in favor of limiting access to guns, background checks at gun shows, a national registry, and the ban on certain military-style weapons (e.g., no RPGs).

Why is this objectionable?

Spec nailed just how Hussein will attempt to take our right to own guns away. Of course this idiot getting the law changed is a LONG way from actually getting the guns out of our homes.

Pauls & Sanity, (#37 & 38) -

Re Sadaam, Bob Baer cites his observations as a CIA Case Officer stationed in Iraq during the 90s.

In "See No Evil", published 2002 by Random House, Baer describes groups in Iraq who wanted to get rid of Mr. Hussein.

They were told not to do so by those at the top in this country. According to Baer, the powers that be had an eye for foreign intrigue but not the stomach for it.

Those decisions among others led to the late summer events in 2001.

Have we learned anything from history? Apparently not.

Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
28 October, 2008

Spec,

As I recall, Castro siezed power via a violent uprising. I believe a democratic election is vastly different.

As to the conditions in modern-day Cuba, I would state that the U.S. embargo has contributed to the current conditions, no?

Ecoterror,
#27
“Before others attempt to sway opinion with the scare-word, "socialism," consider that it's socialism that brings us such reviled institutions as police, libraries, schools, firemen, prisons, national defense, and, more recently, with a high degree of irony, Wall Street investment banks.”

Where do you get this stuff? Socialism and the variety that the people here are speaking of is more like Marxism is a development brought to us by Karl Marx in the 1800’s. Police, in one form or another go back to prehistory. Libraries, first know, Babylonia during the time of the original Jewish state, or about 1000 BC. Best know example is Alexandria Egypt running from about 500 BC. Schools? How about Socrates, teacher to Alexander the Great. Your most impressive would be investment banks, actually the first example of an investment bank was the Order of the Knights of Jesus Christ, otherwise know as the Templar’s. Please do a little research rather than just mouthing off and trying to scare people with your limited knowledge of the facts.

Not at first of course. He has to get all his "ducks in a row", let me tell you it's a step in that direction, he is planting the seed. The idea he has of helping kids go to college all they have to do is put in community hrs peace core, military whatever, well in Cuba Fidel does the same thing you can go to college but you have to put in some time in his Military. It's there you all just don't see it.

Ironside,
#28
Not true is your statement. The BI-PARTISAN committee in the Senate that looked into this stated that they were given the very same information that the Administration was given and blamed the situation of a failure of our intelligence community.

As for the UN Inspectors, they had been previously thrown out of the country by Sadam Hussein. There was no job to complete because they were not in Iraq. In fact, Bush stated publicly at the time that if they were not let back in, then the US would invade.

We can debate missile programs all day. It still does not change that fact that Nikita Khrushchev saw JFK for who he was. JFK let the Cubans out to dry at the Bay of Pigs and allowed the build up of Russian nukes on Cuba. That’s history that I don’t need to re write.

Ironside,
#29
I’ll give you one. McCain wants to buy the mortgages of people who are going into or are in foreclosure so they can stay in their homes. That would be Main Street that Obama says he is supporting. In fact Obama is against helping these people until they loose their homes and have to go on Government assistance.

Spec,

Perhaps, but other countries have national service requirements such as Israel.

Also, my understanding was that Cuba has an excellent school system. I know that there medical doctors are often better trained then those here in the States.

Of course, I do not know (not being from Cuba), but I do have many Cuban friends--who are some of the most intelligent and driven people I know.

Neoneapolitan,
#41
So you supported McCain in 2000, yet you do not now when he is trying to take back the Republican Party from the, as you put it, “neo-cons”. That makes no sense.

Speaking of calling people names, what is your opinion of the constant cry of racist, every time someone says that they disagree or do not support Obama? Since when is a difference of opinion by definition racist?

Liestopper,

Smoke it and you’ll feel better. The uppers are making you too edgy.

Let me explain how a socialist government comes into play 1) disarm the public 2) promising something for nothing 3) disruption of communication which is what the Democrats are trying to do by calling on a law from years ago that forces talk radio to give both sides of the story, which is not right because freedom of speach allows for you to have your opinion and stick to it without having to be forced to report the other side if you don't want to.

fromhere:

McCain wants the U.S. taxpayer to pay the banks that hold the mortgages the face value of the indebtedness, leaving the banks whole and the "homeowner" banking on the federal government for his bailout.

Obama wants a plan that forces the banks to write down the mortgage values to reflect today's deflated prices. The taxpayers would not then be required to absorb the debt represented by all that vanished "equity" the banks would like to claim as profit under McCain's plan.

The difference between the two approaches is substantial, and your confused and incoherent defense of McCain at the expense of Obama and the real Main Street interests says plenty about your grasp of the situation.

In other words, you wouldn't know a "Democratic" proposal if you saw one.

Spec,
#53
Actually Obama only wants to ban assault weapons. He has stated, and it is buried somewhere in his platform that he believes that Americans have the right to bear arms, just not assault wapons.

Yes they do have a very good school system, but what for? Everyone there is starving. and son't tell me the embargo has everything to do with it because they were starving before. Why isn't Castro starving I bet he eats steak and chicken everynite. You go to one of the Grocery stores there to try to buy meat for your family to eat, you have American money, it doesn't matter. The lady at the store laughed when we asked her where we could buy chicken or meat she said she hadn't seen a chicken in months. Great schools and for what?

Yeah, Obama has alot of things buried in his platform.

Elnuestros,
#73

You need to, first, start watching the news instead of listening only to what the Obama-cons are telling you, and second get your facts straight. When McCain announced this plan, Hillary Clinton stated that is was her plan exactly, to which McCain stated, yes it is and I think it is a great plan. McCain and Hillary both have admitted that they spoke at great length about this after Hillary lost the Democratic nomination. So in fact it is a “Democratic” proposal given to us by a democrat and stolen by a republican and admittedly so, because he thinks it is a good plan. It also calls for buying the mortgages at a discount. Read the proposal, not what Obama says is in the proposal. It is in fact the exact same plan Hillary proposed, so I guess I would know a democratic proposal if I saw one.

I didn't want to say it, but God forbid. I mean I don't like the guy don't trust him but wouldn't want to see that happen. They are trying though.

Spec - you must understand that socialism or communism or whatever it should be accurately called cannot work in this country in this day and age. Communism collapsed in the Soviet Union, in China (although they still call themselves communist, but they are really now capitalists), and those were the last two bastions of communism in the world, and it has also collapsed all over Eastern Europe. I am sorry that Cuba still clings to Castro's communism and it has lead to the destruction of that country, but it could not work here in the U.S. and we are not headed in that direction. Why are all you people so scared of Barack Obama? He wants to get us to unite and work together to build our country back up and gain our respect once again around the World. And that somehow frightens you? He could not possibly do what you are predicting. He will be a great President, but just stop listening to Rush, Drudge, Savage, and Fixed Noise Channel. You'll be okay. Give it a rest for a few days.

THE NUMBERS: Barack Obama 52 percent, John McCain 36 percent.

Pew Research Center

spec:

You are living proof that the one thing Cuban we don't need to import is political sensibilities.

For all your success with rum and cigars and big-game fishing, your people sold the country out to U.S. gangsters and corporate interests who ran the country through the strong hand of a totalitarian dictator whose excesses spawned the civil uprising that installed Castro.

Did Castro become a monster after arriving at the seat of power? Of course, and no sensible person denies it. But you can't consider his reign of terror in isolation and without weighing the impact of the Cold War and other world events on both his actions and our chronically dimwitted response to his rule.

There is no greater example -- outside of the West Bank settlers, perhaps -- of political craziness than the Cuban exile community in Florida with its Everglades military camps, its plane bombings and terrorist inclinations, and its stubborn adherence to the worst elements of the Republican party. It is still fighting "communism" long after even the Chinese decided the discredited system wasn't as cool as having KFC and Coke on every corner. What it really wants is to go back and claim what it lost. That might be a natural inclination, but it should have nothing to do with American foreign policy. As the rabid crazies die off, maybe we can arrive at a sane policy that doesn't punish the weakest segments of that island's society.

As for your little history lesson about "socialism," I offer this advice: Stick to what you know. You have your terms confused, and your low-information swapping of socialism with totalitarianism does nothing to help you be taken seriously.

Your Cuban relatives are ticked off. You sense some connection between your grievance and Obama. You are politically unsophisticated to the point of absurdity. You'd be funny if your political allies hadn't blown up passenger planes to prove their points.

Sip some anejo and light up something Rush, the Grand American Patriot, manages to secure for himself despite the boycott and the intransigence of U.S. trade policy, just because he can and the average citizen can't.

Leave the heavy lifting to people who know what they're talking about.

Nuntius and Spec,

Question for you both. Somewhere in your conversation it was brought up that the U.S. has an embargo on Cuba, and by implication that this embargo is a large part of the problem that exists in Cuba including the hunger and lack of goods.

OK, the question: As the United States no longer manufactures most of the goods that we actually consume in our country, and it is the goods that are lacking in Cuba, how is their lack of goods our fault? Couldn’t they go to Venezuela, Ecuador, Chile, China, France, England, Israel or any number of other countries for these goods. Sure, some of them would say no because they feel an allegiance to the United States, but others would normally jump at the opportunity to rub our noses in it.

fromhere:

You wouldn't know "here" if you were standing on it.

At least that's how you come across.

No one who "watches the news" can be considered well informed. If you disagree, you probably find Sarah Palin qualified.

Whatever you want to call it Socialism, Commuunisn, Capitalism all the same crap! just not what America has always been. I just see us going in that direction with Obama.

Eco,
#80
I call those government services. That has nothing to do with the redistribution of wealth. The redistribution of wealth is, such as happened disastrously in the 1970’s and 1980’ in Sweden, the people who have the money are taxed at a disproportional rate and the money is then redirected to, to put it delicately, people of lesser means, without the requirement for action on the recipients part.

Is that easy enough for you. Public services are those services that the government brings you and employs people through to bring you a product or service that we feel is beneficiary to our society. Redistribution of wealth is Obama telling you that because you make so much money he is going to take it away and give it to someone he thinks is more deserving.

Now do you understand the difference?

Elnuestro, how dare you spek down to me you A-- you have no idea who I am. I may not blog all the crap you do and dig so far into something that it gets to the point where it's pointless when you can't even see what is right infront of your eyes. Open them up and get off of your high horse!!!

Geecee827,
#81
Communism only exists one place in the world today in America. It is the Amish society in America that practices true communism. You are speaking of Marxism which is a form of Autocratic Dictatorship with a supreme central government.

I do not watch, listen or read any of the venues that you stated in your blog, but I can not support the election of Obama due to his idea of redistribution of wealth, telling our enemies our plans in Iraq, his lip service to the middle class and the economic policies that he has proposed which will be a disaster to that same middle class.

If he is elected I will support him as I would anyone elected to the presidency, but you are wrong if you do not think that he can achieve at least some of the things that bloggers have posted here. Our form of government allows us more flexibility than any other. One person can make a great difference. In this instance it looks like it will not only be the president, but a super majority in both the house and senate. If this does take place, and it looks more and more like it will, I believe that you are going to see our federal government take a radically different course than the one you think.

fromhere:

Who defines which services are provided by the government?

A progressive who wants tax dollars to fund early childhood education and special needs programs in the public schools is nothing but a thief to those who think government has no business funding education in the first place.

A man who lives in a gated community with its own parks, recreational facilities and restaurants thinks government should shut down its urban renewal and community service operations because the bureaucrats in them want to take his hard-earned money and build basketball courts in River Park.

"The government" as you put it doesn't "bring you" anything that isn't decided through the political process. Grover Norquist and other champions of the "drown government in the bathtub" movement would like to see all government services suspended. They couldn't care less about kids with special needs or public libraries or parks or schools.

Your incoherently reductionist explanation of "services" as something concrete and handed down from on high, like the Ten Commandments, begs the whole question being discussed: What is the appropriate role of government, and how much does society benefit from tax policies that "steal" from billionaires so that poor kids might learn to read?

Since Reagan legitimized greed, the answer seems to be that a Wine Auction every February can offset the damage of a system that keeps the poor that way forever, with no tools to gain knowledge or advancement.

Progressives, myself included, don't want to wait for the charity check. We don't want to wait for the benefits of obscene profits to "trickle down" like yellow rain on hard-working people who can't buy a break or get ahead. We're tired of seeing the land fouled and the air ruined and the water poisoned so that a well-connected few can amass more gas-guzzling luxury cars than they can count.

Taxes, it has been said, are the dues we pay to belong to a civilized society. But the plutocrats running things in this country since Reagan began dismantling the labor movement get their services at the club. They couldn't care less about paying dues to join public pools, or anything else.

And that's where the battle lines are now drawn.

Unless, fromhere, you're a hedge fund manager or corporate raider or overpaid CEO, it's hard to understand exactly why you're standing where you are.

Elnuestros,
#85
Unlike you, I do not listen to the talking heads, but, in fact what the people themselves state. If I had not seen Hillary in an interview state that it was her plan I would not take someone else’s word for it, even McCain’s. If you gather your information from a variety of sources and made an informed opinion based on the evidence you would be qualified to make a logical and rational debate of your opinions. As you only listen to those who you whole heartedly agree with you blogs show a total lack of understanding and an ignorance of the consequences of your decisions.

So, to use your own words, “Leave the heavy lifting to people who know what they are talking about.”

elnuestro, well said...this is a forum to discuss and share your opinions...I don't think anyone should be overly sensitive as long as there are no threats or use of inappropriate language.
Nuntius(#46), I, too, am a registerd Republican that is disillusioned with the party. Your statement is my sentiment.

Rightrep:

The best thing that can happen to this country is for people like you to take back control of your party. As it now is constituted, the GOP is controlled by the neo-right that believes in the Karl Rove brand of democracy, which is that no election is too small to steal by promoting rumors, lies and falsehoods to scare enough voters to change the outcome.

I had hoped that McCain would run an honorable campaign, but he has bought into his party's worst instincts. Maybe a big loss will help to get the GOP back to being Grand.

Elnuestros,
#90
“Unless, fromhere, you're a hedge fund manager or corporate raider or overpaid CEO, it's hard to understand exactly why you're standing where you are.”

I am none of those things and probably make less money than you do. There is one thing I do, do. I work with a number of charitable organizations around our area. I see how, as those who you say have profited from “legitimized greed” spend a great deal of their personal time and money supporting institutions for those who have not been able for what ever reason to make it on their own. Do you realize that if it was not for institutions such as St. Matthews House in Naples or the Immokalee Friendship house that if you lost your home for whatever reason, there would be no where for you to go? Do you have any idea who the people who support these institutions are? They are the most successful people from our business community. Do you really think that your $50 annual contribution runs these institutions?

You claim Reagan legitimized greed. How absolutely ignorant. How do you then explain the money that Joe Kennedy made? Do you think he found a leprechaun at the end of a rainbow?

You refer to yourself as a progressive. Interesting choice. The same moniker that Lenin, Che and Castro all used. They also referred to themselves as the champions of the people.

If you do not know the difference between government services and government handouts than I am afraid there is no hope for you.

Seapointer,

How is what GOP says about Ayers different than what the Dems say about McCain being a Bush Clone or bringing up the Keating 5, etc, etc.

The only difference I see is that:
1) The republicans take the time to actually respond
2) The republicans do cry foul every time it happens

ecoterror,

First, that is only a partial list of where I get my information. I left out the Wall Street Journal, the Economist, Naples Daily News and many other sources of information. I also study history from the economic, social as well as militay perspectives. I have a BS and an MA both from prestgious schools, although that was only the begining of my ongoing, life long search for knowledge. I have watched and participated in politics as well as a variety of businesses since the early 1970's.

So tell me, where do you get your information? The Obama website and where else?

By the way, I am really sorry that you find studying, learning and keeping abreast of the current situation is bourgeouis. If the world would only stop for you, then you could get off, couldn't you.

fromhere,

You asked about my assertion that the U.S. embargo has been detrimental to Cuba. You are correct that they (Cuba) can import from other countries. However, an embargo does not just block goods, it also affects services, travel, U.S. government assistance, and other benefits we offer other countries--some of which who are far worse then Cuba (specifically North Korea and Saudi Arabia).

Unfortunately, embargos hurt the ordinary citizens not the ruling class. I agree that Fidel and to a lesser extent Raul are dictators, but that alone should not preclude the U.S. from offering ordinary Cubans assistance.

I never understood why we support repressive regimes throughout the world, but we refuse to re-evaluate our failed attempt at destabilizing Cuba.

LOL!!I wish he would get off.

Nuntius,
#96
I agree with you that the ordinary citizens are the ones who end up most affected by the embargo, or any other thing any government does. For better, or for worse.

I am not sure as to why you would feel that Saudi Arabia if far worse than Cuba. Cuba has a history of military aggression to evolving democracies in Africa. I am not saying that the Saudi’s are really any better, but I do not see them as far worse.

I also do not understand why we support repressive regimes throughout the world. In fact I would go farther and say I do not understand why we support any regimes other than our own. I am not arguing against giving another country a helping hand if they need it, but I question why we feel we need to give money all around the world. Either the regime in a country is an ally, neutral or an enemy. It really should be that simple. Our on going policy for sending foreign regimes money every year for no real purpose is absurd.

I support initiatives like sending Columbia or Afghanistan money to help fight or mitigate the drug cartels in their country. That is in our own self interest, but there are other countries, such as North Korea, which you pointed out, to which we shouldn’t be giving a dime.

My feeling is that if Cuba’s government were to come forward and show that they in fact have an interest in improving the lives of their citizens, then we should seriously consider changing our approach. They haven’t to this point. I think that once Fidel passes on, Raul may very well do this. But as long as they view us as their enemy, we should not change our position. We might offer them U.S. Government assistance, once this happens for a limited time, but we should not, and believe can not, continue to deal with the world with an open check book.

Spec,
Who would you like to get off?

Rightrep,

Thank you, but I am a registered Independent who has voted for candidates from both parties.

Fromhere,

PBS is a good start--especially the News Hour with Jim Lehr and the BBC World News. Unfortunately the Deuche Welle newscast is not carried by FGCU.

You are also correct in that John McCain is not Bush, and Democrats have attacked McCain wrongly--especially on the Keating 5.

Elnuestros,
I agree with your posts. I am pleasantly surprised that someone is highlighting some of the fallacious arguments. I admit, although poorly constructed arguments are aversive to me, I rarely take the time to debate the tautological nature. Too often it becomes a game of linguistic relativity and semantics.

What Obama said to "Joe The Plumber" was "spread the wealth around" - not redistribute the wealth. Sounds good to me! We already redistribute the wealth through our income tax structure. It's progressive - the more you earn, the more you pay, or should pay, but of course, the rich know all the loopholes to get around paying their fair share. Wasn't it Leona Helmsley the hotel heiress, now deceased, who said "I don't pay taxes"!

Spec,

I hope you saw this from elnuestros.

“No one who "watches the news" can be considered well informed.”

So I would not take him seriously or as anything close to informed. Apparently, according to elnuestros, keeping up with current events will make you ignorant. You are not to believe statements that come from the persons mouth, only what comes filtered through Obama.

Does this somehow sound familiar to you?

Wow, Scary, isn’t it.

fromhere,

It would be nice to see some investment here at home.

I think the prevailing wisdom is that if we provide assistance, we can procure an advantage. This comes in the form of allowing U.S. companies to mine, drill and process natural resources, gives U.S. companies lucrative NGO contracts for roads, wells, and schools, as well as being able to station military personnel on foreign soil. Also, that investment supports a pro-American image abroad.

Unfortunately, China is doing a better job of investing in emerging markets--especially Africa. It is also interesting to see Russia re-assert itself in South America.

Whoever is elected next week, they have a considerable amount of work ahead.

Spec and fromhere: Elnuestros ripped you both a new one. For your own sakes, creep away now before he intellectually disembowels you. You two blockheads are fighting out of your weight class, and, fortunately, finally, so are the flat-earthers of the Republican Party who seek in vain to continue their ruinous rule.