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‘Caging’ letter: Are Republicans trying to disqualify Collier, Lee Democrats?
Getting registered
Will your vote count?
If you received a letter that asks to confirm your voter registration affiliation and number, check the outside of the envelope it came in. If it doesn’t have a return name of Jennifer Edwards, Collier County Supervisor of Elections, or Sharon Harrington, Lee County Supervisor of Elections, throw it away.
The deadline for voter registration in Florida is Oct. 6. Collier County’s elections office will be open until midnight that day to accommodate citizens who want to register.
Elections offices in each county say they will guide those who have moved to their correct precinct on Election Day, if they have changed their registration.
Registered voters who have had any life change should check their registrations before Election Day, including:
* Those who have moved within the county or had to leave their homes because of foreclosure.
* Women who have married and changed their last names.
* Students who attend school out of the county.
* People who have moved into Collier or Lee counties.
If you have questions, call either the Collier or Lee elections offices at (239) 252-8450 or (239) 533-8683.
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NAPLES — Steve Hemping was more than mildly surprised to receive his Party Affiliation Voter Registration Card for the GOP two weeks ago. He’s the chairman of the Collier County Democratic Party.
Since then, he said he has heard more than 30 complaints from local registered Democrats who received the same letter, and the number is growing.
Ira Sharp, president of the Collier County Democratic Club, counts around 100 complaints here from Democrats who say they’ve received the letter, which asks them to confirm their registration as members of the Republican Party by mailing a preprinted card, in a postage-paid reply envelope, to the Republican National Committee.
It also asks for a donation to GOP candidate John McCain’s presidential campaign.
“I’ve had people wondering, do they have to pay to have their party affiliation changed. It’s a deliberate attempt to confuse people,” Sharp said.
Yet Hemping and Sharp also are worried about local Democrats who didn’t receive one of these letters. It has all the marks of a scheme to deny them the vote this Election Day, they say.
“At the very least it’s confusing. At worst, it’s a caging letter. And it could be a lot of things in between,” Hemping said.
He was referring to a practice known as vote caging, a postal service manipulation that political groups use to disqualify voters in rivals’ social or political groups.
Attorney Charles Lichtman of Fort Lauderdale, lead counsel for the Florida Democratic Party, has stronger words for it: “There’s no question in our mind but this is a caging letter. It’s a deliberate attempt to prey on the Democratic senior citizens of this state.”
He called the letter’s claims of being a confirming query “false and frivolous.”
Lichtman suggested people who receive the letters should not only throw them away, but complain to their local elected officials and Florida Gov. Charlie Crist about the misinformation.
Registered Democrats who haven’t received the letters should be wary, however, he added. They are the real caging targets.
* * * * *
Vote caging works like this: A political group mails letters to targeted address lists, which may include certain neighborhoods or rival party-affiliated voters. The letters ask the addressee to confirm his or her registration as a voter of a particular political party.
The sending group isn’t necessarily seeking a response. The letter is marked “Do not forward,” and its senders want the undeliverable letters, the ones that are returned to them.
An organization representative can use those undelivered letters to file a challenge to those voters’ eligibility at their county elections office. The charge: That these registrations are invalid because the voters aren’t at the location claimed as their primary address.
Florida is a potential gold mine of potentially undeliverable mail because so many of its residents are seasonal. It also is one of the battleground states in the 2008 presidential election, along with Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois and Minnesota.
In Florida, Republican and Democratic parties both are investing heavily in TV advertising and local campaign offices. The pressure is becoming intense, and the political machinations bizarre.
Florida election laws directed at voter scrutiny have changed at least three times in the past three years. In the latest salvo, Florida Secretary of State Kurt Browning announced Sept. 5 that the state will begin enforcing a year-old, controversial “no match, no vote” law. Under it, voters whose registration cards don’t match their personal identification exactly will not be allowed to vote.
Democrats contend it will allow clerical errors and nicknames to undermine voter eligibility. They also say it will put Hispanic voters, who may use one or another parent’s last names in various IDs, at risk.
Republicans say it eliminates any possibility of voter fraud.
Voter caging has been around since the 1950s, however, and has been targeted at other areas in Florida for the last two elections. The groups of people most vulnerable to caging letters are those who move frequently, such as students, young adults and military personnel.
But a new category of people may have been added this year: Those who lost their homes through foreclosure.
In Macomb County, Mich., a GOP official told the local daily newspaper, the Macomb Messenger, that party would be challenging voters from addresses in foreclosure. He later denied making the statement.
Caging is particularly egregious in that the person whose voting right is challenged may be unaware of it until he or she shows up to vote, explained Ion Sancho, supervisor of elections for Leon County in Tallahassee.
Sancho, an independent who has been in his post since 1988, has been at the forefront of a movement for election reform.
He finds Florida’s laws particularly insidious.
“The voter who is challenged is pulled out of line. They’ll be sent to someone who has to take down their information again, and they’ll be allowed to vote only on a provisional ballot. It’s humiliating,” Sancho explained. “The supervisor of elections has two days after the election to verify their eligibility, and the voter may have to bring back identification to match a state or federal database.”
A challenge to any voter’s eligibility can be filed beginning 30 days before and up to, even on, Election Day, under Florida law. Elections offices have no legal obligation to notify the voter of the challenge.
Both Gary Beachamp, chief deputy of Collier’s elections office, and Sharon Harrington, supervision of elections in Lee County, each said they will keep lists of challenges if they receive them, and that voters are welcome to check those before the Nov. 4 election.
Still, if a challenge is filed on Election Day, the voter has no defense — even if he or she brings relevant information. That right was eliminated in a Florida law passed in 2005.
“It has to go to the canvassing board for a decision. The law doesn’t give us any latitude on that,” Beauchamp said.
The voter may be required to come to the elections office to present documents that support his or her eligibility. Those most vulnerable are working people who can’t take time from their jobs to defend their eligibility.
“It’s discouraging to voters who say, ‘I’m not going to go back there. I just won’t vote,” Sancho said.
* * * * *
So far, Democrats in Collier, Lee, Duval, Leon, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade counties have reported receiving the do-not-forward letters with Republican Party Affiliation Voter cards.
This type of letter is new to Collier County Democrats, Hemping said.
Some believe the Democratic Party here may have become a target because it is picking up registrations.
“Collier County Democrats have increased their numbers by 70 percent in the last 10 years. We’re really enhancing our membership and that would worry them, I’m sure,” Hemping said.
Beauchamp also said that Democrats have registered more voters with the Collier elections office this year.
“Up until last week we were getting a heavier registration of Democrats. We tend to get them now from the voter registration drives,” Beauchamp said. “But the Republicans are getting in gear. It will even out. We don’t tend to get a lot of ‘no party affiliations’ from these.”
In Lee County, Harrington said she has had the opposite experience: “‘No party affiliation’ registration is growing faster. A lot of people are trying to remain nonpartisan.”
Across the state, through the end of August, the Democratic Party has registered 287,770 new voters; Republicans have registered 146,355.
In June and July, Democratic Party registrations were running ahead of Republican registrations by a slight margin in Collier County, although Republican registrations were ahead in August.
Carla Dean, chairwoman of the Collier County Republican Party, said the local party had nothing to do with the John McCain do-not-forward letter, and hadn’t heard that any Republicans received the do-not-forward letter.
“That’s probably from the Republican National Committee,” she said. “They’re just doing what they do.”
Three requests were made to the Republican National Committee on Sept. 12 and this past week, but no representative would talk about the letters on the record.
Amber Wilkerson, a deputy press secretary for the Republican National Committee, said an interview would be only “on background” or off the record.
Wilkerson sent a written response this week to several questions about the letter to be attributed only to “an RNC official.”
The comments said the mailing was “a fundraising letter.”
To the question of whether the returned letters would be sent to Republican officials in any Florida counties to use in voter challenges, the e-mailed answer was “no.”
If the Republican National Committee plans to challenge Democratic voters in Florida counties, a local partisan has to do it.
“By law, the person entering the challenge has to be a registered elector or poll watcher (who is a registered elector) in the county in which the challenge is being issued,” Beauchamp said.
*****
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Why oh why would republicans be scared around here. This is "Shiite" republican territory.
Long live Nixon!
;-)
#1 Posted by Optipess on September 20, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow. I have not heard of this before. Pretty disturbing if their intention isn't really to rule out fraud, but to prevent legitimate votes. Shameful, even.
#2 Posted by etcetcetc on September 20, 2008 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Preying on seniors? Have you ever tried to tell a senior citizen anything? It seems they know everything until someone puts something over on them. If you aren't smart enough to know what political party you are registered with, maybe you shouldn't be voting.
#3 Posted by parodylost on September 20, 2008 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm a registered independent and I got one of those preprinted GOP affiliation cards. Since 80% of my mail consists of fraudulent attempts to mislead me, scam me or bilk me out of my money, I disregarded it as yet more of the same.
#4 Posted by Pontiaction on September 20, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Caging?
Beetle's made the mistake of donating to a Repubby Govy once...not current Gov...JERK who thinks privatizing everything is the answer.
Repubbies placed Dem Beetle on EVERY SINGLE REPUBBY mailing list KNOWN TO MANKIND.
Beetle didn't mind.
But Beetle didn't see anything in mail recently about showing how DEM I AM.
Big deal out of nothing here?????
#5 Posted by beetlejuice on September 20, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
WOW!!!
30 to 100 complaints about a Republican
fund raising letter sent erroniously
to DEMOCRATS.
Surely the voter challanges resulting from this BUSH evil plan, will throw the entire state of Florida into the republican column.
Vote for Obama piece?
#6 Posted by vivianped on September 20, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Good job Optipess! Comparing Republicans to Shiite Muslims. Really?
This should be a forum for intelligent discourse. Maybe you should try the News-Press.
#7 Posted by parodylost on September 20, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Who cares in a general election you DO NOT declare what Party you are voting.
#8 Posted by suntan on September 20, 2008 at 5:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What we need here is for Democrat lawyers
bringing this matter to the Supreme Court
B E F O R E the election!
#9 Posted by vivianped on September 20, 2008 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
dixielee:
We'll get our complaining out of the way now, as we'll be busy celebrating after the election.
01/20/09 - the End of an Error
#10 Posted by beachykeen on September 20, 2008 at 6 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is nothing new the Republiscum have been doing this in Florida and elsewhere, what is really rotten is that they pull it on soldiers who obviously are not at home, then they challenge the addressee of the returned mail and the soldiers absentee ballot is not counted.
How do you think these vampires got Bush elected twice?
#11 Posted by greathornedlizard on September 20, 2008 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I got this card in the mail. I mentioned it on my website at the time it happened. My mother, an 82 year old Democrat, received one too. I believe this is a ruse to confuse the elderly.
Here'e some of the paperwork I received and the card that came with:
http://www.politicalplace.com/mccain_...
#12 Posted by Ironside on September 20, 2008 at 6:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Not just the elderly received it. People in their fifties got it too!
#13 Posted by frixtwo on September 20, 2008 at 6:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I doubt the McCain campaign had the ages of the recipients to these mailings. My DOB wasn't on any of the literature.
#14 Posted by Ironside on September 20, 2008 at 6:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
same crap different election
#15 Posted by coolkraft on September 20, 2008 at 6:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm grateful to the NDN for running this story, because having people aware of the problem will help keep the election clean. We have always had excellent poll workers, so I hope our state isn't the scandal of the nation again.
Voter caging & suppression targets include military, the young, renters, snowbirds, the homeless, and victims of home foreclosures. These scams are running all over the country, especially in areas hard hit economically.
Another concern is "No match, no vote." Laws have been changed to erect inappropriate barriers to voting in the name of preventing fraud. Our new Florida law is that you have to guess what the government database shows as the last four digits of you S/S #. Gov. Crist put the law into effect after the primary, so you may have a problem even if you've been voting here for years.
For a documentary on voter caging and other suppression techniques used to keep people from voting, go to http://www.freeforall.tv or our local archive for the Sasha Show on WGCU NPR radio locally at http://wgcu.com/sasha/
From supervisor of elections, Collier:
38,778 Non Partisan, 100,727 Rep (51%),
50,671 Dem & 8,686 Other
In a bad economic climate, I don't think anyone can call Collier "wrapped up" for anyone; however, no dirty tricks should be allowed.
#16 Posted by chrysf56 on September 20, 2008 at 7:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Republicans haven't been able to win a presidential election on the issues since Ronald Reagan in 1984 and instead thay have resorted to trickery, distractions, lies or to stealing them.
George Herbert Walk Bush (1988) - Willie Horton
George Bush (2000) - Stole Florida
George Bush (2004) – Fear Tactics - Swiftboated John Kerry - Stole Ohio
Now they are trying to trick the elderly in Florida, and disenfranchise the foreclosed on in Michigan.
This is despicable and any decent person that's a registered Republican should be outraged at this behavior by the Republican Party for the stunts they are trying to pull during this election.
#17 Posted by Ironside on September 20, 2008 at 7:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
dixie we're not running. We're laughing about the Repubbies pick for V.P.
Who could that be?
Sing it with me.....
Sarah...Sarah Palin.
Queen of the Alaskan Frontier
#18 Posted by beetlejuice on September 20, 2008 at 8 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Got to love the Dems. Hispanic votes shouldn't have to provide an ID as they might be using someone elses name!!
#19 Posted by swampbuggy on September 20, 2008 at 8:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure, because the Democrats are getting new registered voters, why not cheat, lie or steal the election if it's possible. Why care.
Great rightwing attitude you have there GatorHater!
AMAZING!
#20 Posted by Ironside on September 20, 2008 at 8:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow. The Democratic posters are really starting to voice their opinions. It must be because their Delegates were reinstated and now Florida Democrats really matter!
Post # 21 wrote "Republicans haven't been able to win a presidential election on the issues since Ronald Reagan in 1984 and instead thay have resorted to trickery, distractions, lies or to stealing them."
Trickery, distractions, lies or stealing pretty much sums up the Clinton legacy.
Thank God for John McCain.
#21 Posted by coyotesfft on September 20, 2008 at 8:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I spread some of my dog's "special recipe" on it and sent it back.
#22 Posted by 676 on September 20, 2008 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ironside wrote:
This is despicable and any decent person that's a registered Republican should be outraged at this behavior by the Republican Party for the stunts they are trying to pull during this election
Ironside, they have had years to do the right thing; there are no decent persons who are registered Republican.
#23 Posted by greathornedlizard on September 20, 2008 at 9:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Democrats don't "run scared." Republicans do, and that is why they use dirty tricks, fake culture wars, and misleading innuendos to win. Sadly, it works because people are too lazy to think about issues.
Not a hockey Mom
Honeybee
#24 Posted by honeybee on September 20, 2008 at 9:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's going on accross the state
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6403
#25 Posted by greathornedlizard on September 20, 2008 at 9:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I read about it in the NY Times comment section about Palin meeting w/Karzai. Now that's funnier than Tina Fey portraying Palin on SNL. Here's the link: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/20..., search for "flyer". Said they also heard about it on MPR. Guessing NPR.
Boy, confusing voters, especially the elderly is patriotic!
#26 Posted by ncdem on September 20, 2008 at 9:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sounds like an email I got the other day saying I would get a million dollars if I sent $5000 and my bank info to get the person out of some God forsaken country. Graciously I declined to help out and forwarded their plea to the spam department of my email provider.
How is this any different from that scam?
#27 Posted by teachurkids on September 20, 2008 at 10:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
teachurkids, how's it different?
One is coming from some lowlife crook in Africa, the other is coming from somebody that wants to run our nation.
How's that for a huge difference?
#28 Posted by Ironside on September 20, 2008 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
#18:
1988: Bush may have named Willie Horton specifically, but Al Gore had already brought up the furlough program earlier in the campaign...and the TV was NOT made by the Bush campaign.
2000: This subject has already been beaten...just like Al Gore's campaign was...and in multiple recouts with different criteria for judging valid vs. invalid ballots.
#29 Posted by pauls on September 20, 2008 at 11:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
how pathetic
#30 Posted by FreshFace on September 21, 2008 at 12:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
with a nn like "dixie" is has to be inbred.
#31 Posted by FreshFace on September 21, 2008 at 12:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wait a second....didn't Hemping resign? Oh wait I forgot he flip flopped.
This is such a crock! Hey here is an idea...If you aren't sure who you are registered with (which I can't believe anyone would be that naive) CALL THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS AND VERIFY YOUR STATUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then Throw the letter away. What's next? Hemping should call Jasse Jackson and Al Sharpton first thing Monday morning and tell them that his voters have been disenfranchised (even though the election hasn't happened yet)!!!!
RE-COUNT!!!!!!!!
#32 Posted by semper2 on September 21, 2008 at 12:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Note on my post #31: I meant to say the TV ad was not made by the Bush campaign.
#33 Posted by pauls on September 21, 2008 at 1:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Anybody who disregards this as just a mistake or no big deal has no idea what the treason means.
Tinkering with elections erodes at the foundation of democracy.
And Taliban, Muslim, Terrorist, type republicans have been at it for over a decade now.
And Semper, sorry, but that was a stupid remark. It's not about one's party. Read the article. Rube.
#34 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 6:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You're a genious #39.
Educate yourself.
#35 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 7:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Shut up fat boy. It was a continuation of posts 1-2.
Try to keep up. ha.
And any party that undermines an election is just what I described.
#36 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 7:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Fat boy.
Is that name calling?
hmmmm.
Flgood, try to make sense just once.
#37 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 7:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
#38 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 7:34 a.m.
Typical.
Fight for your rights Dems. Or the Nazi republicans will try to take them.
Yes. Nazi.
#39 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I sense a little paranoia here. There used to be this guy with a Renault that................
#40 Posted by cousinjed on September 21, 2008 at 7:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You are just tryin to take a guy out, ain't ya?
Actually can't, still dealing with a foot issue.
2 more weeks, back to ridin.
Besides Dog, I am from Boston.
We sling names from anywhere.
Including live-and-in-person.
#41 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 7:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I still love the LeCar....
#42 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Looks like the NDN is up to its sophomoric high school intern editorial staff routine once again.
God forbid that anyone reveal the true scope of voter fraud in Florida. God forbid that the
WB illegals are stopped from voting.
How horrible can it possbile get?
Imagine, truth and honesty in the identity of the voter. Please God, tell me it isn't so.
According to the NDN intern staff.....
#43 Posted by bluestreak on September 21, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
#20 Posted by swampbuggy slamming our Hispanic neighbors' legit concern about the ID law
Ignorant people really bug me. Many cultures have both a matronym and a patronym. My in-laws from the Ukraine had that tradition, too. In this country, we usually only use the latter. So, some kids end up with hyphenated last names if their mother retains her maiden name for professional reasons. There is good reason to be worried about how the double last names are handled in government records now that you can be denied your vote if your IDs don't match exactly.
If you read the NDN regularly, you may remember that Gov. Crist delayed implementing the 'No Match, No Vote' ruling when the injunction expired until AFTER the primary. The reason given was that the counties needed time to clean up their government database. Can we be confident these records are correct now? If THEY made a typo, then I lose my right to vote, with no way to appeal.
I intend to go to the polls this year with my passport proving I am a citizen, with my voter ID card which should have been the only ID I need, with my Florida drivers license, with a recent utility bill or two, and with my property tax record.
Hopefully, with all of this publicity there will not be any shenanigans at the polls. The country is in dire straits and we don't need dirty tricks pulling us apart when we need to unite behind whoever wins the election this fall.
#44 Posted by chrysf56 on September 21, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey oldtimer, You're an angry Repubby.
Have you noticed Mrs. gun toting, moose killin, BRIDGE TO NOWHERE supporter, BIG OIL lovin, once a pot smokin V.P. pick from the Great White North?
Mandatory drug testing for the V.P. picks on both sides...bethya Repubbies have a win in the weed dept. if anything.
Beetle notices her a lot in the news lately.
#45 Posted by beetlejuice on September 21, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
OK, well at least I learned something new. Thanks for the article.
I'll watch out for this.
#46 Posted by Elle on September 21, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/...
#47 Posted by coyotesfft on September 21, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Collier "WWJD" political operatives scorched and destroyed School Board candidate Larry Mullins several years with libelous blog rumors! These same bloggers did not realize that, like telephone calls, blogs can be traced to the source. Although Collierblog.com is closed all files are saved for future litigation..
WWJD?
#48 Posted by dooley on September 21, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Disown your computer, oldtimer.
#49 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This "news story" confused me !! It was so long and the information contained within it so difficult to interpret that I have to congratulate all you people who seemed to understand it so completely. What this really sounds like is a scam by the Democratic party to once again ensure Florida is embarresed in front of the entire nation on election day ! I am NOT a registered Republican so please don't waste your time beating me up about that. It just seems like the Dems are already looking for some way to cry foul when their candidate loses. Anyway, if you don't have some way to prove identification and voter eligibility won't anyone and everyone (felon, illegal, underage, whatever) just be able to walk in off the street and participate in our election process? Or is that the idea?
#50 Posted by unikornicopia on September 21, 2008 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We do not believe you, unicorn.
It is NOT about affiliation.
IT IS ABOUT MAIL RETURNED NOT DELIVERED.
SHEESH. READ IT.
#51 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
unikornicopia
You need to read the report at least one more time.
#52 Posted by greathornedlizard on September 21, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sheesh, I read it. Apparently my master's degreed education doesn't match that 4th grade comprehension course. And thanks for being so concerned about my self image. If admitting that I found a convoluted piece of journalism confusing is embarassing then so be it. I am humbled to think that my simple posting could have incited such reactions in so intelligent a group of individuals as those who chose to comment upon it. I take my bow.
#53 Posted by unikornicopia on September 21, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Uni, thanks for insulting.
You posted at the need for identification. The meat of the piece reveals something more sinister.
Like the disenchantment of voters.
Maybe you have had yours counted, but yes, some of us regret what the Rs have done to Florida Elections.
We do not trust the Katherin Harris types they put in power.
That's all. Just a little tiny constitutional thing.
#54 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Besides, simple and convoluted are the writing styles required at NDN.
#55 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Is a Masters degree spelled Masters or Master's.
Sheesh again Uni. lol.
#56 Posted by LieStopper on September 21, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
unikornicopia, you're correct, you don't get it.
You said it yourself; this story "confused" you. It was evidently too long for you to comprehend and the "information contained within" it was "difficult" for you to "interpret."
If you don't get it, you probably shouldn't try to debate it.
I received one of those letters myself. I know exactly what the McCain camp was attempting to do. How cheap! I suppose that's all they have when the issues are against them at every turn.
"The fundamentals of the economy are strong."
John McCain at least 22 times since January.
"The economy if fundamentally sound."
Herbert Hoover shortly before The Great Depression.
The Wall Street bail-out this week is expected to cost us between $500 billion and $1 trillion. Do you know where this money is coming from? It’s being borrowed from China and Middle Eastern countries. You know... The same countries we no longer want to send money to for crude oil.
We currently owe China $1.8 trllion on a national deficit of $9.5 trillion. Do you not see the problem here?
Now Main Street is being call on to bail-out Wall Street. That's NOT the sign of a fundamentally strong economy.
606,000 jobs have been lost in America this year.
Unemployment is at 6.1% and inflation is at it's fasting growing pace since the GHW Bush administration in 1986.
John McCain is the status quo.
#57 Posted by Ironside on September 21, 2008 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
And the best the Republicans have, is that Obama's middle name Hussein.
Pathetic!
#58 Posted by Ironside on September 21, 2008 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Liestopper et. al. - Calling people who disagree with you names like Nazi or Shiite or pervert doesn't make you look very bright, although I'm sure you are. Can't someone just have a different point of view or a different opinion? Why do they have to be Nazis (which, btw, is not an accurate comparison considering that the Nazis were socialists and calling Republicans socialist just doesn't make any sense)or Shiites (again, this doesn't make a lot of sense, because the Shiites are the most inclusive of the major muslim sects and I doubt this is the message you were trying to convey?
As for the pervert comment. Should an open-minded member of the tolerant, liberal movement be condemning someone based on his sexuality?
#59 Posted by parodylost on September 21, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
parodylost
Written exactly like a Nazi Shiite pervert!
For your limited information, Nazis were not socialists, they were fascists.
Same as Republicans are not patriots, they're fascists.
Get the similarities?
True, as of yesterday's announced taxpayer bail-out of the "free markets", Republicans are now socialists too.
#60 Posted by greathornedlizard on September 21, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Greathornedlizard - First let me congratulate you for writing in complete sentences most of the time, it helps you make a more cogent argument. In fact, I thought perhaps I may have been wrong, so I did some quick research.
National Socialism [or Nazism] Totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of Germany's Nazi Party (1920–45).
Britannica Concise Encyclopedia
fascism -A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship.
Calling people names because they disagree with you seems a lot like fascism, doesn't it.
#61 Posted by parodylost on September 21, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok chrys # 56. Before you start calling people ignorant think about one thing. If a check was written out to one person and the person cashing it showed an ID with a different name. Would you cash it?
#62 Posted by swampbuggy on September 21, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My husband received his GOP voters registration card two weeks ago. I looked at him and said what??? did you change your party affiliation??? He said NO!!!! SO I TOOK THE CARD AND RIPPED IT IN TINY PIECES AND THREW IT IN THE GARBAGE WHERE IT BELONGS.
I have not received mine, I guess I have no right to vote this year.
now that I've read the story, we will be filling a complaint. We been caged by the GOP.
I don't think they're only targeting seniors or the elderly, we are in our mid fourties.
I guess since Mycane is as old as a dinosaur, to the repuke party the fourties is the new elderly.
Dirty little tactics from the repuke party, shows how scared they are running.
#63 Posted by sock_puppet on September 21, 2008 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey Junkyard
It's Mend/aka F.L. Have not been aboard since last year, busy, busy. Have you seen any posts from Attila? or do you think BhutJolokia sounds a little familiar? I think they are one in the same and he is still such a ranter.....
Let me know what's been going on.
#64 Posted by mend on September 21, 2008 at 5:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The truth hurts....
#65 Posted by sock_puppet on September 21, 2008 at 5:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
nope, I don't feel stupid. I bet you whistle dixie as well. I bet you LOVED the idea of slavery, too.
Republicans down here are so backwards.
#66 Posted by FreshFace on September 21, 2008 at 6:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
parodylost
Thanks so much. I knew that the name of Hitler's fascist government was called the National Socialist Party.
Like I said, they were fascists. Just because you and Hitler called them socialists doesn't make it so.
In fact you even looked up a definition (close to Mussolini's) and still did not recognize the Nazi's or the present day Republicans.
Should I assume your reading comprehension was honed in the Rockford Illinois school system a couple years ago?
#67 Posted by greathornedlizard on September 21, 2008 at 7:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Huh, a legal fundraising letter and democrat bigwigs say it's unfair because it may detect people who are ineligible to vote. Yeah, that might be a problem.
#68 Posted by DinNaples on September 21, 2008 at 7:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually it's time to start challenging these illiterate Republicans at the polls!
#69 Posted by greathornedlizard on September 21, 2008 at 7:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Legally misleading, DinNaples - but that's ok with you right?
#70 Posted by teachurkids on September 21, 2008 at 7:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As an independent journalist I reviewed several of these letters and determined they couldn't be used for caging because every one I found used non-profit postage. Though it said "do not forward" it does not specify to be "returned to sender" therefore, based on non-profit postage, the letters would be destroyed. Call the post office and check for yourself.
#71 Posted by drosenfeld33 on September 21, 2008 at 8:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
greathornedlizard
You presented a clear counterpoint and formed an intelligent argument. You even made a relevant historical reference to support your hypothesis. There was no name calling and only one pointless insult.
There was an unnecessary apostrophe in Nazis. Given that the word, in the context you used it, was neither possessive nor a contraction.
#72 Posted by parodylost on September 21, 2008 at 8:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oldtimer, have you ever heard of the Keating Five?
#73 Posted by Ironside on September 22, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
McCain was found to have exercised "bad judgement" in the Keating case, but that was the least of the results of the investigation against the five (the other four being Democrats just for the record).
#74 Posted by pauls on September 22, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The other four (the Democrats) had their political career's ruined because of the scandal.
Again, this proves how Democrats hold their own accountable, while the partisan Republicans turn a blind eye to their politician's wrong-doings.
Name one Democrat in the Senate that has been convicted in a prostitution sting operation.
You know, like the Republicans David Vitter and Larry Craig.
John Edwards won't ever be able to run for president again, his political career is over. Adultry didn't stop Rudy Giuliani or John McCain from running for the office. In Fact it didn't stop John McCain from getting the nomination .
John McCain was obviosly using bad judgemant in the Keating Five scandal and he's cheated on his wife, a drug addict and thief. Is this the kind if "honor and dignity" the Republicans ran on and wanted to bring to Washington DC in the 2000 presidential election? Doesn't it matter in 2008?
#75 Posted by Ironside on September 22, 2008 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)
CORRECTION to post #107:
Name one Democrat in the Senate that has been convicted in a prostitution sting operation or admitted to solicitation to prostitution.
You know, like the Republicans David Vitter and Larry Craig.
#76 Posted by Ironside on September 22, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
John Glenn continued his career after the Keating business.
#77 Posted by pauls on September 22, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
More McCain campaign dirty tricks. This time in Wisconsin.
This is AMAZING! It could cost thousands of voters their votes.
This phony absentee ballot is being sent out to Democrats from the John McCain campaign!
MORE VOTER FRAUD?
http://news.racinepost.com/2008/09/go...
#78 Posted by Ironside on September 22, 2008 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A clarification...the article you link to mentions this is a request for a ballot, not an actual ballot.
#79 Posted by pauls on September 22, 2008 at 9:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you pauls, you're correct. It's still a dirty trick by the McCain campaign.
McCain is obviously extremely desperate and trying several dirty tactics to win this elecion. So much for "Country First."
#80 Posted by Ironside on September 22, 2008 at 10:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I suppose we should just leave election fraud to the professionals...Democrats.
Vote early...vote often!
#81 Posted by pauls on September 23, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why's that? The Republicans are clearly much better at it.
#82 Posted by Ironside on September 24, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Now there's a story I see today of McCain-generate ballot requests in Ohio being threatened with rejection by the Democrat Secretary of State in cases where a box on it that says "I am a qualified elector" is not checked.
The state's actual form does not have a such a box to check off on it.
#83 Posted by pauls on September 24, 2008 at 9:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
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